This isn’t rocket science. Boys are not well because our entire society demonizes masculinity as toxic. More grow up in a fatherless home than ever before.
Jordan Peterson has been sounding the alarm bells on this for many years. Weak men create hard times, which also hurts women. Women are hard wired to marry up, but 1 in 3 college graduates will not be able to because they outnumber men 3:2 on campus.
Remember that social media dictates that women not only "marry up", but that it has to be with a man who meets the 6-6-6 rule (6' tall, 6 pack abs, 6 figure income).
This expectation results in a very limited male dating pool, which in turn creates scores of disappointed and angry women, along with a large group of frustrated men who don't meet the unrealistic criteria that society has generated.
No wonder everyone is becoming increasingly depressed.
Modern feminism also required that women "have their lives together" before they marry (education, career, house, etc...), which pushes marriage later and later. According to online dating data, a woman attempts to match with men who are 0-8 years older than she is (and at least equally educated). Meanwhile, the average man attempts to match to 18-25 year old women regardless of his age.
Thus, educated, successful, 30 year old women are discovering 2 things:
1) Most of the good 30-40 year old men married when they were in their 20's to attractive, early 20's young women;
2) Since 60%+ of all BA/S degrees are awarded to women, confining yourself to "equally educated" men results in at least 30% of these women ending up alone.
Whether any society can survive feminism is highly debatable. Of course, actually debating the premise is verboten, since women's empowerment is a Sacred Good that may not be questioned.
Dating the decline of men to the 1970s, and avoiding the obvious correlation with the rise of feminism -- this essay, good as it is, shows that even the Free Press has its limits in challenging our sacred modern orthodoxies.
Indeed. Talk about the elephant in the room. Toxic feminism is the whole cause of our social ills and will continue to be so until there is no functioning society left. And yes, we are not allowed to even mention it for fear of being labeled misogynist.
Now go and take your SSRI's and pretend you're happy.
Very perceptive commentary, but here’s a further conundrum, and in case you’re wondering, I have no answers, no solutions.
As far as women marrying down the social ladder/hierarchy, it’s often problematic in that statistically speaking, such marriages tend be unstable, and often it’s the male partner who feels negatively.
Hypothetically, I put myself in the position of being a successful plumber, and I marry a female academic, she’s likely gonna make more money than I, maybe a lot more. Most men, it seems, can’t handle that imbalance.
That’s an extreme example. I guess the best balance is achieved if the difference is minimal. A hypothetical successful plumber might be better to marry a nurse, or a primary/secondary schoolteacher. He has a trades red seal, whereas she has a bachelor degree, which puts her theoretically higher on the education scale, but likely he can earn more money, especially if he’s willing to put in the hours.
My bet is a successful plumber will make more than an academic. I think there will be a lot of money to be made in the skilled trades. It's all supply and demand. We aren't raising children who build or fix physical things.
Income may not be the wedge but worldview. The Nurse may be a better fit for the Plumber because they both have a job that requires menial labor - educated and trained labor - but labor nonetheless. They are part of keeping the world running.
My family are all engineers working in manufacturing or work in manufacturing. My wife is a college professor. It's amazing the lack of knowledge and presumptions that abound in academic communities. I often meet folks who do not know how the world works but have an unwavering belief they have it figured out.
Of course you know the old joke: a surgeon wakes in the middle of the night to the sound of running water. His living room is flooded, and the water is beginning to run into other parts of the house.
In a dither, he looks up a plumber in the yellow pages - I told this was an old joke - who advertises "24-hour service." The plumber arrives in jig time, finds the appropriate valve, turns it off, and the water stops.
"That was amazing! How much do I owe you?"
"Six hundred dollars."
"Six hundred dollars?! I'm a surgeon, and I don't make that kind of money!"
"If it's any consolation, when I was a surgeon I didn't make that kind of money either."
Rob Henderson has suggested readings on his Substack. One this week was an archived NYT article from 1970. It queried whether or not academic elites were in fact an athnic group. I found it spot on and prescient.
It's not hypothetical for me. I am actually a stay-at-home dad to 3 teen girls. However, this was a conscious choice on our part, not something that happened accidently.
I had a very successful career in technology (international-level consultant) and then a moderately successful career in real estate and property management. My wife was just starting her career in elementary education when our first 2 kids were born. Since I worked mostly from home, I ended up with the babies while she was at work. My wife loves teaching, so as the kids got older and we decided to home educate, I wound down my practice to stay home permanently.
It isn't really about income. It's mostly about educational level and social position, as you said. And the key point may be that, even after 23 years, I don't think either of us believe we "married down".
My husband and I were both broke and didn't have our degrees yet when we married in our early 20s. So the concept of "marrying up" or "marrying down" wasn't even a consideration.
When we went back to school in our mid-30s, I ended up with an MA, while he only got his BS, because I wanted to become a college professor (I ended up not continuing for my PhD when I realized that there was no hope of getting a tenure-track position in my field without being far, far Left).
We've traded off being the SAM parent over the years, depending on who had more lucrative employment. We made the decision early in our marriage that one of us would ALWAYS be home with the kids.
"Can't handle that imbalance" is such a euphemism. What is the lived experience of these men who allegedly can't handle it? Are they being disrespected? Is their wife/girlfriend talking to her friends about how she's dating down? Is he having to deal with being compared to men who make more money than him? I know you say you have no answers, but it has been such a copout to blame men for every problem.
Huh? I’m not sure how your comment relates to mine. I didn’t mention children, so if you don’t mind, please put our respective comments in more detailed context.
No I was responding to you. You were discussing the power dynamics (my words not yours) of relationships between men in the trades and women in academia. I agree with your position. But nowhere did you take into account what happens when children enter the dynamic. Which they tend to do and when they do it upsets the apple cart. IOW I was not critiquing your POV but was just adding another dimension.
I'm very grateful that I grew up in a culture where marriage is considered the single most important life choice you make, and delaying marriage once you have found your desired partner is frowned on. As a result, most of my friends were married by their mid-20s. And most of those marriages are still intact.
It seems to me that struggling through education, career establishment, and parenthood together makes for strong relationships AND makes those struggles emotionally easier. Of course, that also depends on whether the partners are committed to each other and to each other's happiness.
Your comment made me ask whether early / late marriage might really be a proxy for what you think marriage is.
Perhaps those who marry early are looking for a life partner: "let's go build a shared life together" for better or worse. (And yes, often there's some "worse" in early marriage, but perhaps that's not a bad thing, as you say.)
Those who "get their life together before marrying" can't do that; they've already built a structure to organize their life. Sure, they can find someone who wants to live in their structure (many successful women seem to be looking for a man who will do that) or someone whose life plan and structure dovetails nicely with their own... but building a shared life from the ground up is out. Will their relationship always be more transactional: "you've got your life, I've got mine, now lets come together to do some fun stuff and make some kids"?
I'm honestly not sure. Kind of thinking out loud here.
You make a good point. In my culture, marriage is VERY much about choosing a life partner (and an afterlife partner, according to our beliefs).
Delaying marriage until you've "got your life together" may indeed be a kind of "cherry on top of the cake" thing. A spouse and kids as a kind of crowning achievement. The perfect accessory.
We've always known about the phenomenon of "trophy wives." But it seems as if perhaps marriage itself has become a kind of trophy.
Those who marry after age 25 are more likely to stay together than those who marry younger. Also, the divorce rate for those with a college degree (25%) is lower than for those who only finished high school (39%) and those who didn't finish high school 45%.
The argument marrying older, and being over-educated, are enemies of marriage isn't backed up by statistics.
I think that many educated, urban women in their 30's would disagree with you. Yes, I know, the plural of anecdote isn't data... but the picture of frustrated, successful 33 year old who can't find a date that meets her standards is too common to not be real either.
Remember, there's large self-selection biases regarding early and late marriage, and self-selection is the enemy of reliable statistics.
So, age of first marriage and not getting divorced is a sliding scale where those under the age of 20 are extremely likely to get divorced and those over the age of 22 are likely to not get divorced. The actual difference in likelihood between a 23 year old and a 27 year old is small. Education is a much better metric. But, it is not education level at time of marriage, but terminal education level. And an even better metric is family income.............which of course tracks education. Another factor is how often one attends religious services, with the more often the less likelihood of divorce. Interestingly, there is a big exception in that statistic with atheist being among the least likely to get divorced. (43% of atheist have graduate or post graduate degrees). When looking at any behavior there are going to be many variables driving the behavior so it is reductionist to look at only one (or two).
They have reaped what they have sowed. Watching three highly educated masters of modern feminism testify before Congress highlighted the disconnect. The feminine and the masculine are balanced. Modern feminism has tried to assert a misogynistic feminism at the institutional level, as opposed to what feminism should be, equal balance with masculine.
The presidents of UPenn, MIT and Harvard showed this in all their passive glory. Their tragic, irrational and bitter logic, that of classic control freaks, who do not want to admit when they are wrong. It was a disgusting chorus that could not figure out that their cult which seems to only want ways to find dominance; as all misogynists have done and do, could not figure out that it is wrong to wish death and extinction on entire classes of people and their beliefs. That is the blind anger at work. They need therapy and their beliefs need a dust bin pretty damn quick for the rest of societies sake.
"Most of the good 30-40 year old men married when they were in their 20's to attractive, early 20's young women"
Married, yes, but I'm not sure it was to early 20's young women. The average age of a first marriage in the US is 27 for women (and 29 for men). I suspect there's a difference between who people attempt to match with, and who they actually match with.
Anecdotally, I've been to maybe twenty weddings over the last ten to twelve years, and the youngest bride was 24, getting married to her high school boyfriend who was also 24. The "ideal" model for women to be married, financially stable, and have kids seems to be getting married somewhere between 25 and 32.
... add to that, 600 HP car, 6 months post-relationship, 6" in the pants.
BUT - put the screws on people, and they will eventually screw out from under you. Western men are disgusted and tired of it all; Passport Bros are now a thing - a big thing - and those frustrated men are flooding overseas, especially the Philippines, looking for wives. Want a petite, polite, skilled and hardworking traditional family girl instead of an argumentative, masculine, self-proclaimed "10" who is two axe-handles across the rump? There you go....
The way I heard it, the middle 6 does not refer to 6-pack abs, but rather to to how many inches the man is endowed with. But the 6-pack abs is certainly a more unrealistic expectation. At 56, I'm closer to having 6-pack abs than the vast majority of young Gen Z men that I see, including those that seem to be doing well with the ladies. The 6-figure income is definitely the biggest factor, but that's not a new phenomena. Successful and wealthy males have always had the most attraction for females, since the beginning of time.
1) K-12th grade education has become feminized. Cooperation is emphasized over competition, boys are made to feel like outcasts for their natural inclinations. My son has enjoyed and done his best for male teachers who encourage competition and de-emphasize falling in line.
2) Mainstream sports have been corporatized. Kids are churned through very organized programs at a young age (soccer starts at 3 in my community, and you pretty much can tell who is going to make the High School team by age 9 or 10). Many kids are alienated from sports -- and by extension, most physical activity.
3) Kids are kept too busy with school and extracurricular activities. Even if your kid has time to go outdoors, who is he going to hang out with? The commonest social interaction among teens is texting on Discord or playing video games together from separate ZIP codes.
4) Social skills are in free fall. Today's teenager can converse online with someone in Russia, but freezes up when asked to talk in person (or worse, on the telephone) to their next-door-neighbor. Social media has standardized outrageous behavior, while at the same time stigmatizing normal behavior.
This was an excellent article - and I like Yuri's comment - including about "transition".
Haidt: "For boys and young men, the key change has been the retreat from the real world since the 1970s, when they began investing less effort in school, employment, dating, marriage, and parenting." Very scary.
Boys who live in the virtual world are very much at risk of being groomed into thinking they *are* girls. And, even if they are merely suffering from anxiety - the mental health industry is dangerous because the instant/easy diagnosis that answers all discomfort tends to be that a young person suffers from Gender/a brain inserted into "wrong body". Cha-ching $$ It is so much easier and more lucrative than finding out what is at the bottom of a young person's anxiety than talk therapy (which has been mis-characterized as "conversion therapy" because we all now somehow have gender fairies living inside us that are Real.) Schools are dangerous, too, of course.
I don't see any solution short of:
1) Exposing Gender Ideology for the cult it is and erecting a museum to what happened in the early 21st century. Sure, it won't eliminate all parafilia, autogynofilia, confusion, etc. but it will drastically improve matters. Right now it is just dinosaur parents against the Western World. Oh, and a few policy makers should go to prison.
2) Bust/defund the teachers unions
3) End government schools. Maybe they worked for a hundred years but it is time for change. Libs of Tiktok thinks they are hopeless.
4. Popularize Vocational Training in High School or add some sort of hands on building lab (make simple computers?). I think boys of all academic skill levels would benefit from some real hands on experiences that are useful to society.
Professional advancement for women, while of course inevitable, came at the cost of greatly reducing their partner options. The biological urge to find someone who’ll help provide for a family hasn’t changed.
I feel obligated to mention the work Robert Bly and others did in the '80's/'90's. And, their attempts to reground young men in the healthy masculine, conscious stewardship and personal agency. People remember Bly for IRON JOHN but his SIBLING SOCIETY was clear prophecy concerning the mass emergence of the puer aeternus and the forever half-adult childhood of young people today.(The Bill Moyers interviews and Minnesota Mens Conference lectures are still available on YouTube.) I need not mention the responsible agents who attempted then, and continue today in their efforts, to shout down, and literally destroy the lives of anyone opposed to their inhuman sterility and specious virtuosity.
It occurred to me, as I've mentioned elsewhere, that many of those termed "drag queens", and many who consider themselves "trans" no longer actually resemble women or members of the opposite sex. Rather Alice Cooper style mal formed compensatory creatures sprung from a troubled collective psyche who reject the realm of the human altogether. Could, the long time and recently brought to public light marriage, of capitalist Googleland tech with the DNC/CIC surveillance bureaucracy, and the open admission of their attempt to commodify and manipulate human life worldwide have anything to do with it?
Bluntly. We're witnessing in the world around us the result of the "sorcerer's apprentice" fk'ng with, the knowing attempted manipulation and fear of, the living forces of the deep human unconscious. Isn't en masse breast binding/surgical removal and the castration of young males, in fact, isn't the willingness to destroy an entire generation of American youth for the sake of profit and political control, exactly a reflection of the same in-human scientific political sterility that rationalized the gulag, the ovens, and the killing fields? The same 20th Century megalomaniac narcissism and ideological utopianism that gave mankind the Atomic fireball?
Worried about the depression, suicide and passivity in boys (and girls)? Again: LEARNED HELPLESSNESS--A phenomenon observed in both humans and other animals when they have been conditioned to expect pain, suffering, or discomfort without a way to escape it. How about being drugged, shamed, required to totally abandon your own identity and reject not only your race but the culture and history that informs the fact of your being. All painted, as in every fascist, ideological totalitarian regime, as PROGRESS. If "war isn't good for children and other living things" neither is living inside a manufactured and manipulated hyperrealistic CYBER LIE.
I admire DR. HAIDT and the hard work men and women like him are doing to create and contribute to a truth/fact based and human American national dialogue. As a thought concerning the impact of the meta verse on youth: 1.) It represents an emotionally numbing and unhealthy addictive psychological/emotional possession that exists in a cyber time beyond actual lived reality. 2.) It mimics and destroys the healthy development of the intuition and imagination born of real lived experience. 3.) The manipulation by financial/political actors is actually an attempt to replace the living inborn human psyche altogether and create a commodified inhuman herd managed zombie to provide cheap labor in a CCP styled "15 minute city" zombie land. 4.) Entire nations and peoples can go mad. The consequence of toying with and manipulating the powerful living forces of the universe inside the human psyche have led to collapse, chaos and war time and again. 5.) Consider, as my heroine Shoshanna Zuboff suggests, this entire s#!t storm could be the result of a conscious attempt to openly steal the human future.
Tis the season. Is that yo ho ho Santa or 15 men on a dead mans chest?
An additional factor affecting boys is explicit and implicit anti-male bias in hiring and education. For example, IBM just had an internship that was for anyone expect "white and Asian men". People focused on the racial component, but there's the gender component there too.
The company I worked for was a bit less explicit, but they spent a *lot* of their recruiting budget trying to get more women in tech. The opposite is almost never the case -- eg, there's far more female graduates than male in medicine now, yet how many medical schools or hospitals are focused on finding more men to achieve gender balance?
About 60% of college students are women. And in many cities, women under 30 earn more than men. We are moving rapidly from a patriarchy to a matriarchy. Now you can argue that's a good thing or a bad thing for society at large, the economy, etc. You can make your arguments the world *should* be a matriarchy, and that the time when the male virtues of physical strength, hunting, survival, and combat are no longer necessary in the modern world.
But it means that young men are actively discriminated against just for being born with a penis after the year 2000. So it's no wonder a lot will want to just retreat from the world in one way or another. If the constant messaging is that your natural instincts are "toxic," and the internship/school you want to apply for won't let you in because of how you were born... why not just spend your life getting high and playing video games? Especially if you have a bit of money inherited from boomer parents, what's the point in even trying? In other words, if the world hates you for being born, then why bother with the world?
I was explicitly told by a recruiter that I had all the qualified skills, interviewed well, and was the best candidate. But after a long discussion with the client, they didn't make me an offer because, "they didn't get to interview a female candidate in the pool."
So I said if I'd been a women, they would have hired me. And the recruiter freaked out and insisted they weren't discriminating at all and I was totally misunderstanding why they refused to hire someone qualified because of his sex.
This is illegal, these companies know that it's illegal, and the declaration that they can discriminate "for diversity and equity" is an example of how DEI is revolutionizing our entire country, starting with our most cherished and basic principles of restrained government and equal rights.
THIS - the company I work for (which is a HUGE corporation that acquired my previous small employer) is obsessed with DEI goals and I've noticed that women outnumber men in our operations department at a very high rate. I can't imagine that's just a coincidence.
just a clarification as I see it, DEI is NOT revolutionizing America/world, but is destroying it bit by bit. "Revolutionizing" to me, usually means improvement or a means to a better situation, usually. DEI is not better, it is trash.
Yes. Destroying by actively excluding. It is just reverse discrimination, thus fixing nothing, just creating a whole host of other problems and issues. It is actually the antithesis of what it proclaims to do. Rather than including, it seeks to “other”. Look no further than what is happening on college campuses with the DE and I garbage. It started on campus but has now spread toxically to the rest of the society at large. I’d love to say it’s going away, but I doubt anytime soon. What happens very long term remains to be seen.
I was discriminated against in looking for a tenure track position in academia in the 1990s. I know that for a fact. I also suspect I was discriminated against last year in looking for a position at a large bank, but have no way of proving it. Both times it worked out for the better that I didn't get those jobs. So, I believe it to be true when I hear stories like you have told us.
It the same in the financial services world. Women are recruited and hired with lesser qualifications than men, then when they can’t do the work or keep up with the grueling hours, some of their work is shifted onto the desks of men.
I say this as a woman: The longer I am alive, I see men as the builders. They have the aggressiveness and energy to do so. Women not so much. I have a 15-yr-old son who I talk to him about the miliary and the trades. Not that he isn't intelligent enough to go to college- he is- but I don't see good opportunities for him there. And if he ends up charging college grads for the skills he provides and makes a profit off them, so be it. There are a glut of college degrees out there but our society is hurting for tradesmen. Let the market balance this out.
The educational system has narrowed the definition of a smart or achieving student with changes in the curriculum that don't match the development of children. Because many boys develop gross motor skills before fine motor skills, they are especially stressed by the demand to write, sit for long periods of time, etc. in kindergarten and first grade. Their intelligence is not acknowledged and their initial taste of education can plant the seed that school is not their area of success. This is just one example, where many boys and some girls that are intelligent achievers are denied recognition for their inate skills.
What is great about the US educational system is that a welder, a mechanic, a plumber, a hairdresser, etc can if they want go back to college and continue their education as an adult with the drive, confidence, and life experience that they have achieved. (Writing this as a mother whose son is now in the reserves and completing an advance degree in engineering. All the best to your son!)
As AI and robots continue to increase, there will be less need for tradesmen. If robots can build a house, or rather construct a house out of preformed parts, what need will there be for carpenters, brick layers, roofers, electrician, plumbers, etc.? It's the same with automobile repairmen. Today's vehicles requier comperters and nothing is repaired, just replaced. In the medical field the trend is the same. In the past 10 yrs. only 1 dr., in the ER, examined me, all the others ran tests and read the results on their screens without ever asking me anything. That leaves the military. And who wants to fight another war for politicians?
Tradesmen will always be required; being a black box repairman still takes skill.
And...in my limited personal experience traveling the globe I sure don't see AI doing anything in the jungles of Central America - or anywhere else with limited access to power and back end computing resources (connectivity).
Without power - and lots of it - AI doesn't do much.
Case in point: when we deployed teams in Astan in 2001 they couldn't use cell phones - no towers except in Kabul. Hence the resurrection of the Iridium satellite phones. Same thing happens everywhere across the globe; connectivity and power are not globally ubiquitous as yet.
Seems I recall that we would all be using flying cars by now and have a base on the Moon, too. That never came to pass.
Until the technological house of cards fails. Which I am convinced is an old, old story on this rock. Plus I am not eating lab-grown meat so I need my man to keep hunting and fishing.
Lab-grown people... well, the technology is already there for artificial wombs. But it won't be used to churn out people on an assembly line (they want *less* people). It'll be used as a "boutique" for very wealthy people to grow kids (just as surrogacy/IVF is used now). Most of the early consumers will be gay couples or infertile women, going into the future, it may end up being the default so that women will not have to go through the physical hardships associated with nativity.
And I guess by your account my son should just start sucking his thumb and give up. And if what you say is true, then I hope he understands how to build things and defend himself because that is exactly what he will need to survive what your describing.
On an individual basis, yes, he needs to learn to do those things, and making a living at them, outside the military, is a losing proposition. I don't know what you do in the military, for me it was the biggest waste of 3 yrs. in my entire life.
I feel differently on both accounts. For some people the military can be a waste of time if that is what they chose. And I disagree with your prognosis of the future. Good luck to you, though.
I won't be around to know if my prognosis is correct. As for the military, it may be different now than when I was in. (1957-1960) Then there was very little choice and orders were routinely messed up and people were sent to the wrong places to do things that the weren't suited or qualified for, while, at the same time, what they were good at was ignored. The stupidest people I've ever met were carreer soldiers. I hope it's changed.
I don't think you are necessarily wrong, but I think your timeline is way off. There is a definite shortage of tradesman now. They can make a much higher average wage than a lot of college educated people.
This is completely backwards. AI will be (and is currently) replacing soft skilled jobs first. Law and accounting have been among the hardest hit. Chat GPT can write emails faster than you.
This doesn’t address the fact that these people whose jobs consist almost entirely of email and meetings aren’t doing anything productive anyway.
Per your example, it is much easier for AI to replace a doctor reading charts than for it to replace a plumber standing on a ladder bending through a hole replacing a pipe from 60 years ago in the dark.
This may be true in the very long term. But in the short term, the opposite is the case -- the trades are the things *least* impacted by automation and AI. Plumbers, electricians, HVAC, certain construction tasks, even roofing are finnicky tasks that often require trained humans.
I'd say to get into plumbing instead of art, animation, communications, finance, working at call centers/support, doing data analysis, or a lot of other tasks degrees are required for. AI is quickly taking those tasks over. Even something like surgery is probably more threatened by robotics than replacing a broken pipe in an old house, because it's easier to centralize (installing surgical devices at one location instead of someone's basement way out of the way).
Yes, it's the long term that I was speaking of. Having been around a long time, and seen what comes around go around so many times it looks like a merry-go-round, I have a dystopian view of the world. The further away from the US one goes, the more "normal" things seem. The trades are still flourishing, people are still kind and helpful, and the basic necessities of life are still valued. The governments still suck, and are unhelpful and greedy. But that's a given.
The military is a great option for a young man. I wish I had chosen to pursue an enlisted contract right out of high school instead of pursuing a degree in college. I grew up not really knowing what I wanted, and, in general, I didn't understand how to deal with people. I ended up finishing my bachelor's and I had zero desire to pursue a master's. I went along with my dad's desire and worked at one of our farms until I saw an ad for the military. I chose that, pursued that, and I believe it has really benefited me.
Living, eating, and breathing alongside every walk of life changes you for the better. You see humans as they are. Selfish, greedy, cruel, and most of all, interested in number one. Even selfless and kind people are forced to look after themselves, if only to protect their own interests. Assertive communication is the standard. Passive aggressive habits are killed. And all of this emotional development results from such simple, low value things like protecting your own water bottle or lunch.
If your son has already emotionally and mentally mastered the insanity of male/female workplaces, then he probably doesn't need the military. Otherwise, the worst that can happen is we send the lads to a godforsaken land where only authority and trust in each other matters, which, again, if he survives, will only bring him strength and purpose.
I think it extremely foolhardy to transition to a matriarchy in reliance on the belief that male virtues of physical strength, hunting, survival and combat are no longer necessary. There are still a lot of people who see the world as it is rather than how we want it to be. Most are ruralites. We understand that we are one extended blackout away from the Stone Age.
The testes are the offenders. The bigger, the more threatening. That's what it looks like on paper in the bizzaro world of Leftilunatica. Thanks hippies.
There's an article here endorsing Naked Attraction, some UK dating show where the lads and ladies are naked and they judge each other for dating. Anyway, one of the episodes has a lady saying that a guy's testes were small and she just wanted to mother him and treat him like a kid.
That's the level of insanity going on. Women are physically attracted to strong dominant men with I guess big testes, but for whatever reason, strong dominant men are slandered as "toxic".
Why not spend our lives getting high, playing video games, and leeching off our parents? Because we're necessary. Because we like having sex with women. Because we like making a dent in the world. Even if everyone hates us, even if whites and asians are viewed as too organized, too gifted, too successful, too "toxic", we are still human, we are still strong, and we're still ready to fight for our own interests.
I'm Swarthy. I loathe the leftists that encourage parasitic dependency amongst the brown and black people. My progeny are white because when mate selection time came around I selected the whitest, pastiest most intelligent girl that was interested in me. That she was and still is easy on the eyes was a plus but not a requirement. Why? Because I wanted to improve upon my genetics in the next generation. It's hard to argue with the brilliance exhibited by the German Jews. That's why.
A factor not mentioned was the removal of vocational training from schools, the incessant condescension towards the skilled trades by many of those with college degrees, and the depression of wages in the trades due to illegal immigration. Mike Rowe and Matthew Crawford have both done much to highlight this problem that primarily affects males.
When I was in high school (2001-2005) I signed up for both woodshop and metal shop classes every year. Had a real interest. Freshman, got neither. Same in sophomore. Same in junior. Same in senior. Finally in my senior year I went to the guidance counselor to ask if I was doing something wrong. She told me because of my 120+ IQ test from years back I had been identified as being on the college track, and that the shop classes were for the "struggling" students. I.O.W the school system, with zero consultation with me or my parents, had decided my future for me, and refused to allow me to pursue educational opportunities I had a real passion for. Fast forward almost 20 years, and after flunking out of community college, I work with wood every day after being self-taught for years and I view my daily work with joy and excitement. I am not rich and I am incredibly fine with that. I get to envision things in my mind and use my hands to bring them into existence in the real world, blending form and function to create things that people want to own and use and touch every day, and it is wonderful. The system wanted me to be a zombie banging a keyboard in a cubicle. Our school system is astoundingly broken. It's little wonder our children are, too.
I am one of those occasional females that has always had non-traditional interests. In middle school in the early 70's I wanted to take woodshop but was forced to take home ec and later typing. It was torture, so I am very I'm very glad to hear you are working with wood. My mother tried to teach me to sew but I only learned just enough to sew a straight seam. I later realized my lack of application was because I had zero interest in clothing fashion. My entire attitude towards clothes is "Is it comfortable, is it clean, and I'll attempt to not look like a sack of laundry." Now apply that to the population of males where there is much greater interest in skilled trades, and our schools have become actively hostile to the trades. I like to say that people go to college because they aren't smart enough to learn a trade, or the schools forced them towards a useless college degree. Another factor hurting males is lack of hands-on skills being passed from father to son (or occasionally a daughter). We have a neighbor who does stucco work and his wife homeschools the children. When they are ready, they start going to work somedays with dad. The oldest, a 22-yr-old, is already doing excellent stucco work on his own and buying a small home. I believe we have all been pushed towards college as a way to decrease the likelihood of being able to support a family with independent work. At the same time, females that are inclined towards professional homemaking, with some exceptions, are not learning how to cook a nutritious meal, stay within a family budget and take care of the earliest education of their children. We are in trouble.
My daughter is like that. She hung out with me and learned to do stuff. I was concerned she might grow up to bat for the other team but as it turned out she likes men. The men she likes are the artistic type that injure themselves with tools. She's married now and we have three grandchildren through her and her fine husband.
I'm married (to a man) and we have 3 grown children. Growing up in the 60's and 70's I was constantly bombarded with "Why do you hate being a female?" It's good to hear you taught her stuff even though you were concerned. Earlier this year I met a young woman in her early 30's with a degree in art design. After college she was unable to find a good job but she had grown up in a family of carpenters and she had also been taught those skills. She's married and works in her wood shop at home, applying her art design skills by making custom millwork. On the other side, it's good to see the increase in men in nursing. These male nurses often do double duty as security, handling the more difficult patients, especially in the ER at night during the witching hours when the violent drunks come out.
In my view you love them as they are. The creator gifted them for us to guide and teach but also to learn from, If you're paying attention. It's a difficult but rewarding endeavor.
Two daughters and one son, and the middle daughter is nothing like me but I'm fine with that. Many who have worked with me are shocked when they meet her but this isn't rocket science. As you stated, love them as they are. I would never do to her what was done to me, and her more typically feminine leanings not only don't bother me but bring out my admiration for her.
Absolutely, but I was and am extremely independent and pigheaded, and I had no desire to "be a boy" as much as some tried to get me to believe that was my "problem." I always knew I was a girl that just liked atypical things. I can state with certainty that I would have told them to take a hike. I'm the proverbial wrench in the gears.
I can only imagine the beautiful things you could have made if kept on the track that aligned with the best of who you are. Brian, you found your way eventually. The school system is broken.
I can't help myself as I wish aptitude testing was provided early in in high school. So many “underachieving” students would feel validated and confident to pursue their aligned strengths. College is not for everybody. Becoming your best, however, is achievable.
I had the opposite experience in jr. high, in the 50s. I had to take shop classes, had no apptitude for any of them and hated every day in class. They were the only classes that I failed. All I wanted to do was play music. Fortunately there was a music program, and if it weren't for that, I would have dropped out of school.
I'm glad you figured out how to make your way. The secret is the joy. I tell people I've never "worked" a day in my life. I'm giddy thinking people are happy to pay us to do what we absolutely love.
Most electives have been wiped out in favor of 2-hour blocks of Math, English, Ethnic Studies etc. Factors like allegiance to academic te$ting, and the litigiou$ public suing districts over skinned knees have eliminated things like shop classes, internships, field trips, and band- all the things that made school tolerable.
I work in an inner-city school in CA, occasionally I'll see a kid with a guitar playing out in the hall and think there used to be classrooms and people dedicated to fostering that interest, now it is gone. The district has a ton of money, but the place is filthy, bathrooms locked, food terrible, no security. It's worse than prison, and surrounded by piles of garbage and homeless encampments. Our libraries are ghost towns if they even exist, field trips can only be to a lawyer-approved list of sites, and good luck getting the money.
And since none of this is working we are now being asked to rig the outcome, and offered extra money to inflate grades, by adopting "Equity Grading." Of course our kids are depressed, disrespectful of institutions, and retreat to the fantasy world in their pocket.
No physical education or real recreational time, either. I remember gym class in jr hi, took showers after gym at school. My kid, at same school 40 years later, said they don’t do any of that anymore. And so many out of shape kids, sitting all day!
I believe depressed wages in the trades is probably the biggest problem we have, leading to a plethora of other problems, including unmarriable men, poverty, broken families, and drugs.
The crisis among boys is hardly new news. Christina Hoff Summers sounded the alarm two decades ago in her book The War Against Boys. Jordan Peterson has been sounding the alarm. Men of all skin tones, especially those who are masculine, have been in the crosshairs for decades, so of course they are pessimistic. And our society is grave danger because of it.
Boy's problems should be sorted out in the playground. By the third grade everyone knows their place in the pecking order. The girls in their turn already start to know who they like. It was always thus until the toxic leftists and the crazed feminists they engender were permitted to take over.
If you have children keep them out of the leftist feminization/indoctrination compounds cleverly disguised as public schools.
A final note is if you take your boy fishing and hunting you'll never need to hunt for your son.
'A final note is if you take your boy fishing and hunting you'll never need to hunt for your son.' A fine sentiment but not exactly true.... Probably you will have to go hunt for him on the next ridge or next cove over that you never had the courage to explore and he did to best his old man! But that's what we want, right?
"A final note is if you take your boy fishing and hunting you'll never need to hunt for your son."
My dad took me fishing, I never took to it, it was WAY to boring for me, I would rather be doing something. Maybe if he had given me a beer it would have been different...
Too. WAY too boring. That hasn't been our experience going back three generations from me and also two going forward. I'll agree beer helps. However it's the thrill of the hunt. That's why it's fishing though not always catching.
You are absolutely correct however even in 1960 when I was sent off to a foreign language school (Amercan because I don't speak "English") there were single parent children. The playground sorted who was who and who was best left at peace even if he didn't win every scuffle nor spoke the language. Some of those boys won pyrric victories though.
Glad that someone other than mothers of boys are finally noticing that something is wrong. I wrote about this issue over 20 years ago in my mommy blog. Meanwhile, Christina Sommers of AEI had sounded the alarm bells at that very time and no one in education or the sciences listened.
Now I have adult sons with multiple masters degrees in the right fields (the ones that the experts told them were part of the future-STEM, digital media) who can't even get job interviews. Deciding that maybe if they segue into something else they will be able to finally launch into the adulthood that is being denied to them. (You can't have a future working for minimum wage at McDonalds, or cleaning up other people's crap, no matter what anyone in Bidenland tells you how service jobs are great.) They are also not alone in this world where their options seem so limited.
You want to know why marriage and childbirth is down-this is why. If young men can't financially take care of themselves, how are they going to be a helpmate to anyone?
We raised our sons to be men. Real men -to honor and respect their family, nation and obligations. They were raised with the belief that doing all the right things, doing well in school and working hard, will produce benefits. Someday that is going to be respected once again in this country even for males.
I'm sorry to hear about your sons' troubles finding a job. I don't know much about digital media but I spent over 40 years in the software business until retiring recently. Everything I say may be something you've already heard, and too late anyway if he's already left the field. But my observation is that in tech there's less emphasis on degrees than in what you've done. I would counsel anyone in a similar situation to do your own personal projects that you are passionate about, and put them on your resume. Also consider contributing to an open source project. Creativity and the ability to self-teach are highly valued, since in a fast moving field a degree is often irrelevant in a few years anyway.
I have seen that in tech as well. I'm almost done after 34 years. My company used to have a pretty strict degree requirement but that has given way to just trying to find people who can actually do the job.
Thank you so very much for your thoughts. He has left the field already. But that doesn't mean he doesn't retain the skills, and in having information it doesn't mean he can't segue back and forth or even use his tech background to help in his new field. Every bit of counsel is greatly appreciated. :)
The oldest has 2 Masters degrees-computer science and software engineering and the younger one has a degree in digital media and a masters in media and communication. No one knows why they cant get job interviews. The career office at university worked with my older one for years tweaking the resume and trying to figure this out. They were at a total loss. Both have left these fields and are looking into other opportunities. This started way before AI.
Having degrees is just a starting point, and collecting degrees is a trap to many. Sending out resumes and emails is not a measure of successfully pursuing a job, because technology has lowered the difficulty. Anyone can send an email or apply for a job now. Survival skills, aggression, chutzpah. And the schools teaching digital media are preying on fear. Digital media needs to be learned on the job. These skill-based bachelors and masters degrees are not as helpful as survival skills and human understanding, because they are too easily obtained. Your kids can turn this around immediately if they become willing to fight for what they want.
Honestly no one could figure out what the problem was. The career office at his university was simply systified. This is also a young man who did so well academically he was inducted into one of the academic honor societies...
Has the oldest one looked into working in medical imaging software? That's what my husband does (with a BS and no master's) and the field seems to really need good, competent people.
This is the issue. They applied to any job that was applicable. They didn't just keep their area local. Yet, nothing. And you would have thought that during the pandemic when everything was remote it wouldn't matter where you lived. My husband and I are old school and don't know how the system works now. That is why we were glad that the career office tried to help. But even they had no answer as to what was going on. It is just so very odd.
ICBW but we still have people moving to the area in droves and the young people I know with skill sets similar to your sons' seem to be in demand. Everybody who is anybody in tech is in Austin. From Google to Tesla to Homeaway. Suggest that they investigate. Also everybody who is anybody interested military industrial complex is in Huntsville, Alabama and those are all tech jobs. Huntsville is a beautiful place too.
Another huge factor is the drop-off in faith and worship among youth. Harvard epidemiologists VanderWeele, Li , and Kawachi estimated that nearly 40% of the increase in suicide (and by extension mental illness) stems from the decline in religious service attendance.
Patrick oh that is a very good point. But that loss of faith or a shared value that is bigger than yourself is affecting all demographics, except maybe satanists. ;-)
Perhaps it’s in the book but he simply didn’t comment on it here for sake of space. Because I hear a recent interview with Haidt on the Russel Moore show and they did talk about the decline in religion.
Yes, K. B., that's probably so, but the decline of religion is the main reason for the lack of meaning in the lives of our youth. If "they" had just kept the Boy Scouts, that would have helped.
It’s def a main contributor— Haidt said in the interview that youth raised in religious communities do have lower levels of depression/anxiety/self-harm rates on average.
Thank you for the article, Jonathan. I wish more people would read this and share it with friends that have boys. I myself have two girls but I have recognized for years, long before I had kids, that the world, in the US at least, created groups, scholarships, opportunities, etc. specifically for girls with nothing directed towards boys. I am not at all surprised by your findings or those making similar determinations. I have already started to the the link to your article and plan on diving deeper into this topic. I am even working towards my psych degree (later in life) to be one of those seemingly rare creatures, a male therapist to work with police and combat vets. However it would seem, that men in general are looking for male therapists.
While the article is interesting (I have a 14 year old boy), I’m struck by the fact that someone reviewed data, consulted another expert and actually changed his mind on an important topic. A rare and refreshing thing these days. Kudos Mr Haidt.
Boys and girls are not okay because their families are not okay. Their families are not okay because of divorce culture. Any study that isn’t addressing the root causes of child trauma (fatherlessness) is not about helping children. It’s about propping up adult autonomy over against children’s rights.
One thing I learned about boys after marrying my husband is the effect of pornography on their psyche. My husband feels the he was exposed far too early and found it traumatizing. He credits the military and his deployment for breaking his addiction. He convinced me that if we give smartphones or laptops to our boys they will fall victim to these major corporations that push the material. It predatory and perverted that we do not demand organizations like mindgeek verify that children are not accessing adult content.
It doesn't help that teachers are heavily over represented by woman and that teachers lean left which from the 1970s onward has meant the people boys are led by spend an inordinate amount of time demeaning, condescending and ridiculing normal male behavior. Boys grow up being told at the same time, woman and men are equal but you mow the lawn, don't hit girls even if they hit you because you're stronger, you sign up for the draft to sacrifice your life to protect woman, you protect the woman in the family, you are responsible and she is not because you are a man and she is a woman, you open the doors for them, you respect their emotions, you stop being so emotional yourself, boys don't cry, boys keep a stiff upper lip, on and on and on but remember woman and men, boys and girls are 100% equal! More than that, we have to prioritize girls because of 'ma patriarchy... m' 'kay...
Part of it too is that teenage boys are being shepherded onto a social media that is just as addictive but not nearly as rewarding for them as it is for girls. The result is that boys are spending similar amounts of time on TikTok, but getting far less value from it. Now, instead of playing video games themselves, they're watching videos of other people playing them. Soon, they'll take another step outside of reality and, as a a meta-version of themselves, watch videos of other meta versions of other people playing video games. It's hard to imagine how the death-march toward this meaningless void ends. Or, maybe it's easy. Take your kid's phone tell them to kick around a soccer ball. The problem is that electronic devices require far less behavioral management (also known as parenting and spending quality time with your kids) from adults. The same is true in schools for teachers. Society is taking the easy way out, and the kids are suffering because of it.
Another excellent analysis of the spiraling unhappiness of America’s youth. The causes seem readily apparent. What’s puzzling is that, beyond articles describing the situation, there have been no actions to address the drivers of the problem - social media and video games, bias against males, outsourcing our industries, education becoming indoctrination. America’s future is its young people and it is being methodically destroyed while we talk about the First Amendment. The real question is when are we going to stop being observers and address these root causes. The first step is to identify who benefits from this. Any ideas?
Perhaps, although globalists are all about profits. My sense is that this is more about those that wish to destroy America and her individual liberties.
Steve Jobs thought he was giving the world a tool for a quantum leap in human productivity and creative agency. He did. But the net negative impact of the smart phone and its evil spawn, social media, is incontrovertibly born out in the numbers. I see these downcast, slouching young men today who look like they want to disappear. It’s very sad. I would love to put Job’s genie back in the bottle.
Jonathan, Thanks for the great observations and concern for our nation's sons. They truly are struggling, as are our girls. When it comes to understanding the despair associated with the self reporting of depression and pessimism, girls are more likely to express their despair. Boys are far more likely to actualize their depression and pessimism. And, I would argue that it has more to do with the lack of a cultural recognition of the importance of the masculine and less to do with an ability to express feelings. People who feel comfortable and safe are more likely to express themselves and regulate their emotions. The pessimism is the first part and acting out the pessimism is the second part.
In education: Go to any state in the country, and you will see that boys score lower than girls in reading. And this cuts across racial lines as well.
This isn’t rocket science. Boys are not well because our entire society demonizes masculinity as toxic. More grow up in a fatherless home than ever before.
Jordan Peterson has been sounding the alarm bells on this for many years. Weak men create hard times, which also hurts women. Women are hard wired to marry up, but 1 in 3 college graduates will not be able to because they outnumber men 3:2 on campus.
Now boys are being socially and chemically transitioned by misguided parents, doctors, and teachers. More are destroying women in sports and invading female spaces. Here are a few prominent examples: https://yuribezmenov.substack.com/p/how-to-save-womens-sports-riley-gaines
Remember that social media dictates that women not only "marry up", but that it has to be with a man who meets the 6-6-6 rule (6' tall, 6 pack abs, 6 figure income).
This expectation results in a very limited male dating pool, which in turn creates scores of disappointed and angry women, along with a large group of frustrated men who don't meet the unrealistic criteria that society has generated.
No wonder everyone is becoming increasingly depressed.
Modern feminism also required that women "have their lives together" before they marry (education, career, house, etc...), which pushes marriage later and later. According to online dating data, a woman attempts to match with men who are 0-8 years older than she is (and at least equally educated). Meanwhile, the average man attempts to match to 18-25 year old women regardless of his age.
Thus, educated, successful, 30 year old women are discovering 2 things:
1) Most of the good 30-40 year old men married when they were in their 20's to attractive, early 20's young women;
2) Since 60%+ of all BA/S degrees are awarded to women, confining yourself to "equally educated" men results in at least 30% of these women ending up alone.
Whether any society can survive feminism is highly debatable. Of course, actually debating the premise is verboten, since women's empowerment is a Sacred Good that may not be questioned.
Dating the decline of men to the 1970s, and avoiding the obvious correlation with the rise of feminism -- this essay, good as it is, shows that even the Free Press has its limits in challenging our sacred modern orthodoxies.
Indeed. Talk about the elephant in the room. Toxic feminism is the whole cause of our social ills and will continue to be so until there is no functioning society left. And yes, we are not allowed to even mention it for fear of being labeled misogynist.
Now go and take your SSRI's and pretend you're happy.
"Now go and take your SSRI's and pretend you're happy."
Don't forget about your therapy session!
True. And while Haidt is an old-style liberal and not a conservative, I am disappointed that he was afraid to address that.
Very perceptive commentary, but here’s a further conundrum, and in case you’re wondering, I have no answers, no solutions.
As far as women marrying down the social ladder/hierarchy, it’s often problematic in that statistically speaking, such marriages tend be unstable, and often it’s the male partner who feels negatively.
Hypothetically, I put myself in the position of being a successful plumber, and I marry a female academic, she’s likely gonna make more money than I, maybe a lot more. Most men, it seems, can’t handle that imbalance.
That’s an extreme example. I guess the best balance is achieved if the difference is minimal. A hypothetical successful plumber might be better to marry a nurse, or a primary/secondary schoolteacher. He has a trades red seal, whereas she has a bachelor degree, which puts her theoretically higher on the education scale, but likely he can earn more money, especially if he’s willing to put in the hours.
My bet is a successful plumber will make more than an academic. I think there will be a lot of money to be made in the skilled trades. It's all supply and demand. We aren't raising children who build or fix physical things.
Income may not be the wedge but worldview. The Nurse may be a better fit for the Plumber because they both have a job that requires menial labor - educated and trained labor - but labor nonetheless. They are part of keeping the world running.
My family are all engineers working in manufacturing or work in manufacturing. My wife is a college professor. It's amazing the lack of knowledge and presumptions that abound in academic communities. I often meet folks who do not know how the world works but have an unwavering belief they have it figured out.
Of course you know the old joke: a surgeon wakes in the middle of the night to the sound of running water. His living room is flooded, and the water is beginning to run into other parts of the house.
In a dither, he looks up a plumber in the yellow pages - I told this was an old joke - who advertises "24-hour service." The plumber arrives in jig time, finds the appropriate valve, turns it off, and the water stops.
"That was amazing! How much do I owe you?"
"Six hundred dollars."
"Six hundred dollars?! I'm a surgeon, and I don't make that kind of money!"
"If it's any consolation, when I was a surgeon I didn't make that kind of money either."
Rob Henderson has suggested readings on his Substack. One this week was an archived NYT article from 1970. It queried whether or not academic elites were in fact an athnic group. I found it spot on and prescient.
It's not hypothetical for me. I am actually a stay-at-home dad to 3 teen girls. However, this was a conscious choice on our part, not something that happened accidently.
I had a very successful career in technology (international-level consultant) and then a moderately successful career in real estate and property management. My wife was just starting her career in elementary education when our first 2 kids were born. Since I worked mostly from home, I ended up with the babies while she was at work. My wife loves teaching, so as the kids got older and we decided to home educate, I wound down my practice to stay home permanently.
It isn't really about income. It's mostly about educational level and social position, as you said. And the key point may be that, even after 23 years, I don't think either of us believe we "married down".
My husband and I were both broke and didn't have our degrees yet when we married in our early 20s. So the concept of "marrying up" or "marrying down" wasn't even a consideration.
When we went back to school in our mid-30s, I ended up with an MA, while he only got his BS, because I wanted to become a college professor (I ended up not continuing for my PhD when I realized that there was no hope of getting a tenure-track position in my field without being far, far Left).
We've traded off being the SAM parent over the years, depending on who had more lucrative employment. We made the decision early in our marriage that one of us would ALWAYS be home with the kids.
"Can't handle that imbalance" is such a euphemism. What is the lived experience of these men who allegedly can't handle it? Are they being disrespected? Is their wife/girlfriend talking to her friends about how she's dating down? Is he having to deal with being compared to men who make more money than him? I know you say you have no answers, but it has been such a copout to blame men for every problem.
Actually, the single factor that most predicts a man's getting divorced is the loss of his job. I can provide a link to one study if you like.
I agree to an extent but note that the children are not part of this equation at all. I do not believe in the village raising the child.
I’m guessing you were responding to m knight, who did just barely mention children.
Huh? I’m not sure how your comment relates to mine. I didn’t mention children, so if you don’t mind, please put our respective comments in more detailed context.
No I was responding to you. You were discussing the power dynamics (my words not yours) of relationships between men in the trades and women in academia. I agree with your position. But nowhere did you take into account what happens when children enter the dynamic. Which they tend to do and when they do it upsets the apple cart. IOW I was not critiquing your POV but was just adding another dimension.
I'm very grateful that I grew up in a culture where marriage is considered the single most important life choice you make, and delaying marriage once you have found your desired partner is frowned on. As a result, most of my friends were married by their mid-20s. And most of those marriages are still intact.
It seems to me that struggling through education, career establishment, and parenthood together makes for strong relationships AND makes those struggles emotionally easier. Of course, that also depends on whether the partners are committed to each other and to each other's happiness.
Your comment made me ask whether early / late marriage might really be a proxy for what you think marriage is.
Perhaps those who marry early are looking for a life partner: "let's go build a shared life together" for better or worse. (And yes, often there's some "worse" in early marriage, but perhaps that's not a bad thing, as you say.)
Those who "get their life together before marrying" can't do that; they've already built a structure to organize their life. Sure, they can find someone who wants to live in their structure (many successful women seem to be looking for a man who will do that) or someone whose life plan and structure dovetails nicely with their own... but building a shared life from the ground up is out. Will their relationship always be more transactional: "you've got your life, I've got mine, now lets come together to do some fun stuff and make some kids"?
I'm honestly not sure. Kind of thinking out loud here.
You make a good point. In my culture, marriage is VERY much about choosing a life partner (and an afterlife partner, according to our beliefs).
Delaying marriage until you've "got your life together" may indeed be a kind of "cherry on top of the cake" thing. A spouse and kids as a kind of crowning achievement. The perfect accessory.
We've always known about the phenomenon of "trophy wives." But it seems as if perhaps marriage itself has become a kind of trophy.
Those who marry after age 25 are more likely to stay together than those who marry younger. Also, the divorce rate for those with a college degree (25%) is lower than for those who only finished high school (39%) and those who didn't finish high school 45%.
The argument marrying older, and being over-educated, are enemies of marriage isn't backed up by statistics.
I think that many educated, urban women in their 30's would disagree with you. Yes, I know, the plural of anecdote isn't data... but the picture of frustrated, successful 33 year old who can't find a date that meets her standards is too common to not be real either.
Remember, there's large self-selection biases regarding early and late marriage, and self-selection is the enemy of reliable statistics.
So, age of first marriage and not getting divorced is a sliding scale where those under the age of 20 are extremely likely to get divorced and those over the age of 22 are likely to not get divorced. The actual difference in likelihood between a 23 year old and a 27 year old is small. Education is a much better metric. But, it is not education level at time of marriage, but terminal education level. And an even better metric is family income.............which of course tracks education. Another factor is how often one attends religious services, with the more often the less likelihood of divorce. Interestingly, there is a big exception in that statistic with atheist being among the least likely to get divorced. (43% of atheist have graduate or post graduate degrees). When looking at any behavior there are going to be many variables driving the behavior so it is reductionist to look at only one (or two).
They have reaped what they have sowed. Watching three highly educated masters of modern feminism testify before Congress highlighted the disconnect. The feminine and the masculine are balanced. Modern feminism has tried to assert a misogynistic feminism at the institutional level, as opposed to what feminism should be, equal balance with masculine.
The presidents of UPenn, MIT and Harvard showed this in all their passive glory. Their tragic, irrational and bitter logic, that of classic control freaks, who do not want to admit when they are wrong. It was a disgusting chorus that could not figure out that their cult which seems to only want ways to find dominance; as all misogynists have done and do, could not figure out that it is wrong to wish death and extinction on entire classes of people and their beliefs. That is the blind anger at work. They need therapy and their beliefs need a dust bin pretty damn quick for the rest of societies sake.
"Most of the good 30-40 year old men married when they were in their 20's to attractive, early 20's young women"
Married, yes, but I'm not sure it was to early 20's young women. The average age of a first marriage in the US is 27 for women (and 29 for men). I suspect there's a difference between who people attempt to match with, and who they actually match with.
Anecdotally, I've been to maybe twenty weddings over the last ten to twelve years, and the youngest bride was 24, getting married to her high school boyfriend who was also 24. The "ideal" model for women to be married, financially stable, and have kids seems to be getting married somewhere between 25 and 32.
... add to that, 600 HP car, 6 months post-relationship, 6" in the pants.
BUT - put the screws on people, and they will eventually screw out from under you. Western men are disgusted and tired of it all; Passport Bros are now a thing - a big thing - and those frustrated men are flooding overseas, especially the Philippines, looking for wives. Want a petite, polite, skilled and hardworking traditional family girl instead of an argumentative, masculine, self-proclaimed "10" who is two axe-handles across the rump? There you go....
The way I heard it, the middle 6 does not refer to 6-pack abs, but rather to to how many inches the man is endowed with. But the 6-pack abs is certainly a more unrealistic expectation. At 56, I'm closer to having 6-pack abs than the vast majority of young Gen Z men that I see, including those that seem to be doing well with the ladies. The 6-figure income is definitely the biggest factor, but that's not a new phenomena. Successful and wealthy males have always had the most attraction for females, since the beginning of time.
"(6' tall, 6 pack abs, 6 figure income)."
6 pack abs isn't the other 6
cleaned that one up nicely but.....
1) K-12th grade education has become feminized. Cooperation is emphasized over competition, boys are made to feel like outcasts for their natural inclinations. My son has enjoyed and done his best for male teachers who encourage competition and de-emphasize falling in line.
2) Mainstream sports have been corporatized. Kids are churned through very organized programs at a young age (soccer starts at 3 in my community, and you pretty much can tell who is going to make the High School team by age 9 or 10). Many kids are alienated from sports -- and by extension, most physical activity.
3) Kids are kept too busy with school and extracurricular activities. Even if your kid has time to go outdoors, who is he going to hang out with? The commonest social interaction among teens is texting on Discord or playing video games together from separate ZIP codes.
4) Social skills are in free fall. Today's teenager can converse online with someone in Russia, but freezes up when asked to talk in person (or worse, on the telephone) to their next-door-neighbor. Social media has standardized outrageous behavior, while at the same time stigmatizing normal behavior.
And before Jordan Peterson there was Focus On The Family, which was pounded on for years. It's a tough neighborhood.
This was an excellent article - and I like Yuri's comment - including about "transition".
Haidt: "For boys and young men, the key change has been the retreat from the real world since the 1970s, when they began investing less effort in school, employment, dating, marriage, and parenting." Very scary.
Boys who live in the virtual world are very much at risk of being groomed into thinking they *are* girls. And, even if they are merely suffering from anxiety - the mental health industry is dangerous because the instant/easy diagnosis that answers all discomfort tends to be that a young person suffers from Gender/a brain inserted into "wrong body". Cha-ching $$ It is so much easier and more lucrative than finding out what is at the bottom of a young person's anxiety than talk therapy (which has been mis-characterized as "conversion therapy" because we all now somehow have gender fairies living inside us that are Real.) Schools are dangerous, too, of course.
I don't see any solution short of:
1) Exposing Gender Ideology for the cult it is and erecting a museum to what happened in the early 21st century. Sure, it won't eliminate all parafilia, autogynofilia, confusion, etc. but it will drastically improve matters. Right now it is just dinosaur parents against the Western World. Oh, and a few policy makers should go to prison.
2) Bust/defund the teachers unions
3) End government schools. Maybe they worked for a hundred years but it is time for change. Libs of Tiktok thinks they are hopeless.
4. Popularize Vocational Training in High School or add some sort of hands on building lab (make simple computers?). I think boys of all academic skill levels would benefit from some real hands on experiences that are useful to society.
These would be a start.
Spot on Yuri
Professional advancement for women, while of course inevitable, came at the cost of greatly reducing their partner options. The biological urge to find someone who’ll help provide for a family hasn’t changed.
Not ideal for either sex.
Absolutely Mr. B.
I feel obligated to mention the work Robert Bly and others did in the '80's/'90's. And, their attempts to reground young men in the healthy masculine, conscious stewardship and personal agency. People remember Bly for IRON JOHN but his SIBLING SOCIETY was clear prophecy concerning the mass emergence of the puer aeternus and the forever half-adult childhood of young people today.(The Bill Moyers interviews and Minnesota Mens Conference lectures are still available on YouTube.) I need not mention the responsible agents who attempted then, and continue today in their efforts, to shout down, and literally destroy the lives of anyone opposed to their inhuman sterility and specious virtuosity.
It occurred to me, as I've mentioned elsewhere, that many of those termed "drag queens", and many who consider themselves "trans" no longer actually resemble women or members of the opposite sex. Rather Alice Cooper style mal formed compensatory creatures sprung from a troubled collective psyche who reject the realm of the human altogether. Could, the long time and recently brought to public light marriage, of capitalist Googleland tech with the DNC/CIC surveillance bureaucracy, and the open admission of their attempt to commodify and manipulate human life worldwide have anything to do with it?
Bluntly. We're witnessing in the world around us the result of the "sorcerer's apprentice" fk'ng with, the knowing attempted manipulation and fear of, the living forces of the deep human unconscious. Isn't en masse breast binding/surgical removal and the castration of young males, in fact, isn't the willingness to destroy an entire generation of American youth for the sake of profit and political control, exactly a reflection of the same in-human scientific political sterility that rationalized the gulag, the ovens, and the killing fields? The same 20th Century megalomaniac narcissism and ideological utopianism that gave mankind the Atomic fireball?
Worried about the depression, suicide and passivity in boys (and girls)? Again: LEARNED HELPLESSNESS--A phenomenon observed in both humans and other animals when they have been conditioned to expect pain, suffering, or discomfort without a way to escape it. How about being drugged, shamed, required to totally abandon your own identity and reject not only your race but the culture and history that informs the fact of your being. All painted, as in every fascist, ideological totalitarian regime, as PROGRESS. If "war isn't good for children and other living things" neither is living inside a manufactured and manipulated hyperrealistic CYBER LIE.
I admire DR. HAIDT and the hard work men and women like him are doing to create and contribute to a truth/fact based and human American national dialogue. As a thought concerning the impact of the meta verse on youth: 1.) It represents an emotionally numbing and unhealthy addictive psychological/emotional possession that exists in a cyber time beyond actual lived reality. 2.) It mimics and destroys the healthy development of the intuition and imagination born of real lived experience. 3.) The manipulation by financial/political actors is actually an attempt to replace the living inborn human psyche altogether and create a commodified inhuman herd managed zombie to provide cheap labor in a CCP styled "15 minute city" zombie land. 4.) Entire nations and peoples can go mad. The consequence of toying with and manipulating the powerful living forces of the universe inside the human psyche have led to collapse, chaos and war time and again. 5.) Consider, as my heroine Shoshanna Zuboff suggests, this entire s#!t storm could be the result of a conscious attempt to openly steal the human future.
Tis the season. Is that yo ho ho Santa or 15 men on a dead mans chest?
GOT CONSTITUTION?
My FIVE year old grandson had been scheduled to spend the night yesterday. But wait, the newest addition of Fortnite had just dropped! See you later.
No big deal, there will be another night.
Not for a while, his family is moving from Texas to Virginia in two weeks.
An additional factor affecting boys is explicit and implicit anti-male bias in hiring and education. For example, IBM just had an internship that was for anyone expect "white and Asian men". People focused on the racial component, but there's the gender component there too.
The company I worked for was a bit less explicit, but they spent a *lot* of their recruiting budget trying to get more women in tech. The opposite is almost never the case -- eg, there's far more female graduates than male in medicine now, yet how many medical schools or hospitals are focused on finding more men to achieve gender balance?
About 60% of college students are women. And in many cities, women under 30 earn more than men. We are moving rapidly from a patriarchy to a matriarchy. Now you can argue that's a good thing or a bad thing for society at large, the economy, etc. You can make your arguments the world *should* be a matriarchy, and that the time when the male virtues of physical strength, hunting, survival, and combat are no longer necessary in the modern world.
But it means that young men are actively discriminated against just for being born with a penis after the year 2000. So it's no wonder a lot will want to just retreat from the world in one way or another. If the constant messaging is that your natural instincts are "toxic," and the internship/school you want to apply for won't let you in because of how you were born... why not just spend your life getting high and playing video games? Especially if you have a bit of money inherited from boomer parents, what's the point in even trying? In other words, if the world hates you for being born, then why bother with the world?
I was explicitly told by a recruiter that I had all the qualified skills, interviewed well, and was the best candidate. But after a long discussion with the client, they didn't make me an offer because, "they didn't get to interview a female candidate in the pool."
So I said if I'd been a women, they would have hired me. And the recruiter freaked out and insisted they weren't discriminating at all and I was totally misunderstanding why they refused to hire someone qualified because of his sex.
This is illegal, these companies know that it's illegal, and the declaration that they can discriminate "for diversity and equity" is an example of how DEI is revolutionizing our entire country, starting with our most cherished and basic principles of restrained government and equal rights.
THIS - the company I work for (which is a HUGE corporation that acquired my previous small employer) is obsessed with DEI goals and I've noticed that women outnumber men in our operations department at a very high rate. I can't imagine that's just a coincidence.
hey Anthony
just a clarification as I see it, DEI is NOT revolutionizing America/world, but is destroying it bit by bit. "Revolutionizing" to me, usually means improvement or a means to a better situation, usually. DEI is not better, it is trash.
rich
Yes. Destroying by actively excluding. It is just reverse discrimination, thus fixing nothing, just creating a whole host of other problems and issues. It is actually the antithesis of what it proclaims to do. Rather than including, it seeks to “other”. Look no further than what is happening on college campuses with the DE and I garbage. It started on campus but has now spread toxically to the rest of the society at large. I’d love to say it’s going away, but I doubt anytime soon. What happens very long term remains to be seen.
Can't you just tell them you identify as a woman? It isn't really a lie, because the word is officially meaningless.
Lady Ballers!
I was discriminated against in looking for a tenure track position in academia in the 1990s. I know that for a fact. I also suspect I was discriminated against last year in looking for a position at a large bank, but have no way of proving it. Both times it worked out for the better that I didn't get those jobs. So, I believe it to be true when I hear stories like you have told us.
Sue them
It the same in the financial services world. Women are recruited and hired with lesser qualifications than men, then when they can’t do the work or keep up with the grueling hours, some of their work is shifted onto the desks of men.
I say this as a woman: The longer I am alive, I see men as the builders. They have the aggressiveness and energy to do so. Women not so much. I have a 15-yr-old son who I talk to him about the miliary and the trades. Not that he isn't intelligent enough to go to college- he is- but I don't see good opportunities for him there. And if he ends up charging college grads for the skills he provides and makes a profit off them, so be it. There are a glut of college degrees out there but our society is hurting for tradesmen. Let the market balance this out.
The educational system has narrowed the definition of a smart or achieving student with changes in the curriculum that don't match the development of children. Because many boys develop gross motor skills before fine motor skills, they are especially stressed by the demand to write, sit for long periods of time, etc. in kindergarten and first grade. Their intelligence is not acknowledged and their initial taste of education can plant the seed that school is not their area of success. This is just one example, where many boys and some girls that are intelligent achievers are denied recognition for their inate skills.
What is great about the US educational system is that a welder, a mechanic, a plumber, a hairdresser, etc can if they want go back to college and continue their education as an adult with the drive, confidence, and life experience that they have achieved. (Writing this as a mother whose son is now in the reserves and completing an advance degree in engineering. All the best to your son!)
As AI and robots continue to increase, there will be less need for tradesmen. If robots can build a house, or rather construct a house out of preformed parts, what need will there be for carpenters, brick layers, roofers, electrician, plumbers, etc.? It's the same with automobile repairmen. Today's vehicles requier comperters and nothing is repaired, just replaced. In the medical field the trend is the same. In the past 10 yrs. only 1 dr., in the ER, examined me, all the others ran tests and read the results on their screens without ever asking me anything. That leaves the military. And who wants to fight another war for politicians?
Tradesmen will always be required; being a black box repairman still takes skill.
And...in my limited personal experience traveling the globe I sure don't see AI doing anything in the jungles of Central America - or anywhere else with limited access to power and back end computing resources (connectivity).
Without power - and lots of it - AI doesn't do much.
Case in point: when we deployed teams in Astan in 2001 they couldn't use cell phones - no towers except in Kabul. Hence the resurrection of the Iridium satellite phones. Same thing happens everywhere across the globe; connectivity and power are not globally ubiquitous as yet.
Seems I recall that we would all be using flying cars by now and have a base on the Moon, too. That never came to pass.
"Tradesmen will always be required"
Why? Hominoid robotes combined with AI are coming
Until the technological house of cards fails. Which I am convinced is an old, old story on this rock. Plus I am not eating lab-grown meat so I need my man to keep hunting and fishing.
Ha!
I am glad I will not live to see it.
The Matrix lol.
Lab-grown people... well, the technology is already there for artificial wombs. But it won't be used to churn out people on an assembly line (they want *less* people). It'll be used as a "boutique" for very wealthy people to grow kids (just as surrogacy/IVF is used now). Most of the early consumers will be gay couples or infertile women, going into the future, it may end up being the default so that women will not have to go through the physical hardships associated with nativity.
"I fear lab grown meat is just a stepping stone towards lab grown people. "
It began with Louise Brown, the test tube baby.
From the genetic engineering to the breakdown of the family to uninhibited sex, it is amazing how prescient Aldous Huxley was in Brave New World.
I'm in the military.
And I guess by your account my son should just start sucking his thumb and give up. And if what you say is true, then I hope he understands how to build things and defend himself because that is exactly what he will need to survive what your describing.
On an individual basis, yes, he needs to learn to do those things, and making a living at them, outside the military, is a losing proposition. I don't know what you do in the military, for me it was the biggest waste of 3 yrs. in my entire life.
I feel differently on both accounts. For some people the military can be a waste of time if that is what they chose. And I disagree with your prognosis of the future. Good luck to you, though.
I won't be around to know if my prognosis is correct. As for the military, it may be different now than when I was in. (1957-1960) Then there was very little choice and orders were routinely messed up and people were sent to the wrong places to do things that the weren't suited or qualified for, while, at the same time, what they were good at was ignored. The stupidest people I've ever met were carreer soldiers. I hope it's changed.
I don't think you are necessarily wrong, but I think your timeline is way off. There is a definite shortage of tradesman now. They can make a much higher average wage than a lot of college educated people.
This is completely backwards. AI will be (and is currently) replacing soft skilled jobs first. Law and accounting have been among the hardest hit. Chat GPT can write emails faster than you.
This doesn’t address the fact that these people whose jobs consist almost entirely of email and meetings aren’t doing anything productive anyway.
Per your example, it is much easier for AI to replace a doctor reading charts than for it to replace a plumber standing on a ladder bending through a hole replacing a pipe from 60 years ago in the dark.
"As AI and robots continue to increase, there will be less need for tradesmen"
agreed, but the same thing will be happening with many white collar jobs and maybe even quicker
This may be true in the very long term. But in the short term, the opposite is the case -- the trades are the things *least* impacted by automation and AI. Plumbers, electricians, HVAC, certain construction tasks, even roofing are finnicky tasks that often require trained humans.
I'd say to get into plumbing instead of art, animation, communications, finance, working at call centers/support, doing data analysis, or a lot of other tasks degrees are required for. AI is quickly taking those tasks over. Even something like surgery is probably more threatened by robotics than replacing a broken pipe in an old house, because it's easier to centralize (installing surgical devices at one location instead of someone's basement way out of the way).
Yes, it's the long term that I was speaking of. Having been around a long time, and seen what comes around go around so many times it looks like a merry-go-round, I have a dystopian view of the world. The further away from the US one goes, the more "normal" things seem. The trades are still flourishing, people are still kind and helpful, and the basic necessities of life are still valued. The governments still suck, and are unhelpful and greedy. But that's a given.
The military is a great option for a young man. I wish I had chosen to pursue an enlisted contract right out of high school instead of pursuing a degree in college. I grew up not really knowing what I wanted, and, in general, I didn't understand how to deal with people. I ended up finishing my bachelor's and I had zero desire to pursue a master's. I went along with my dad's desire and worked at one of our farms until I saw an ad for the military. I chose that, pursued that, and I believe it has really benefited me.
Living, eating, and breathing alongside every walk of life changes you for the better. You see humans as they are. Selfish, greedy, cruel, and most of all, interested in number one. Even selfless and kind people are forced to look after themselves, if only to protect their own interests. Assertive communication is the standard. Passive aggressive habits are killed. And all of this emotional development results from such simple, low value things like protecting your own water bottle or lunch.
If your son has already emotionally and mentally mastered the insanity of male/female workplaces, then he probably doesn't need the military. Otherwise, the worst that can happen is we send the lads to a godforsaken land where only authority and trust in each other matters, which, again, if he survives, will only bring him strength and purpose.
I went into the Army first. It worked out very well for me. It matured me greatly and got me ready to be serious to pursue my schooling and career.
Good boy Mom!
I think it extremely foolhardy to transition to a matriarchy in reliance on the belief that male virtues of physical strength, hunting, survival and combat are no longer necessary. There are still a lot of people who see the world as it is rather than how we want it to be. Most are ruralites. We understand that we are one extended blackout away from the Stone Age.
Suburban mom here and I agree with you.
I think the middle east speaks to the theory that male virtues...................are no longer necessary.
Men do all these nice and necessary things, and women are such lovely and friendly people. What is going on?
I quit believing in fairy tales when I was 6 or 7. But neither fdo I believe the horror story that ALL men are bad.
The testes are the offenders. The bigger, the more threatening. That's what it looks like on paper in the bizzaro world of Leftilunatica. Thanks hippies.
There's an article here endorsing Naked Attraction, some UK dating show where the lads and ladies are naked and they judge each other for dating. Anyway, one of the episodes has a lady saying that a guy's testes were small and she just wanted to mother him and treat him like a kid.
That's the level of insanity going on. Women are physically attracted to strong dominant men with I guess big testes, but for whatever reason, strong dominant men are slandered as "toxic".
To paraphrase Madeline Albright....anyone who thinks society would be better off as a total matriarchy has forgotten about middle school. LOL.
It should also be noted that the most dangerous thing in the world are young men that are unemployed/unattached.
That's where trouble starts
Why not spend our lives getting high, playing video games, and leeching off our parents? Because we're necessary. Because we like having sex with women. Because we like making a dent in the world. Even if everyone hates us, even if whites and asians are viewed as too organized, too gifted, too successful, too "toxic", we are still human, we are still strong, and we're still ready to fight for our own interests.
I'm Swarthy. I loathe the leftists that encourage parasitic dependency amongst the brown and black people. My progeny are white because when mate selection time came around I selected the whitest, pastiest most intelligent girl that was interested in me. That she was and still is easy on the eyes was a plus but not a requirement. Why? Because I wanted to improve upon my genetics in the next generation. It's hard to argue with the brilliance exhibited by the German Jews. That's why.
A factor not mentioned was the removal of vocational training from schools, the incessant condescension towards the skilled trades by many of those with college degrees, and the depression of wages in the trades due to illegal immigration. Mike Rowe and Matthew Crawford have both done much to highlight this problem that primarily affects males.
When I was in high school (2001-2005) I signed up for both woodshop and metal shop classes every year. Had a real interest. Freshman, got neither. Same in sophomore. Same in junior. Same in senior. Finally in my senior year I went to the guidance counselor to ask if I was doing something wrong. She told me because of my 120+ IQ test from years back I had been identified as being on the college track, and that the shop classes were for the "struggling" students. I.O.W the school system, with zero consultation with me or my parents, had decided my future for me, and refused to allow me to pursue educational opportunities I had a real passion for. Fast forward almost 20 years, and after flunking out of community college, I work with wood every day after being self-taught for years and I view my daily work with joy and excitement. I am not rich and I am incredibly fine with that. I get to envision things in my mind and use my hands to bring them into existence in the real world, blending form and function to create things that people want to own and use and touch every day, and it is wonderful. The system wanted me to be a zombie banging a keyboard in a cubicle. Our school system is astoundingly broken. It's little wonder our children are, too.
I am one of those occasional females that has always had non-traditional interests. In middle school in the early 70's I wanted to take woodshop but was forced to take home ec and later typing. It was torture, so I am very I'm very glad to hear you are working with wood. My mother tried to teach me to sew but I only learned just enough to sew a straight seam. I later realized my lack of application was because I had zero interest in clothing fashion. My entire attitude towards clothes is "Is it comfortable, is it clean, and I'll attempt to not look like a sack of laundry." Now apply that to the population of males where there is much greater interest in skilled trades, and our schools have become actively hostile to the trades. I like to say that people go to college because they aren't smart enough to learn a trade, or the schools forced them towards a useless college degree. Another factor hurting males is lack of hands-on skills being passed from father to son (or occasionally a daughter). We have a neighbor who does stucco work and his wife homeschools the children. When they are ready, they start going to work somedays with dad. The oldest, a 22-yr-old, is already doing excellent stucco work on his own and buying a small home. I believe we have all been pushed towards college as a way to decrease the likelihood of being able to support a family with independent work. At the same time, females that are inclined towards professional homemaking, with some exceptions, are not learning how to cook a nutritious meal, stay within a family budget and take care of the earliest education of their children. We are in trouble.
My daughter is like that. She hung out with me and learned to do stuff. I was concerned she might grow up to bat for the other team but as it turned out she likes men. The men she likes are the artistic type that injure themselves with tools. She's married now and we have three grandchildren through her and her fine husband.
I'm married (to a man) and we have 3 grown children. Growing up in the 60's and 70's I was constantly bombarded with "Why do you hate being a female?" It's good to hear you taught her stuff even though you were concerned. Earlier this year I met a young woman in her early 30's with a degree in art design. After college she was unable to find a good job but she had grown up in a family of carpenters and she had also been taught those skills. She's married and works in her wood shop at home, applying her art design skills by making custom millwork. On the other side, it's good to see the increase in men in nursing. These male nurses often do double duty as security, handling the more difficult patients, especially in the ER at night during the witching hours when the violent drunks come out.
In my view you love them as they are. The creator gifted them for us to guide and teach but also to learn from, If you're paying attention. It's a difficult but rewarding endeavor.
Two daughters and one son, and the middle daughter is nothing like me but I'm fine with that. Many who have worked with me are shocked when they meet her but this isn't rocket science. As you stated, love them as they are. I would never do to her what was done to me, and her more typically feminine leanings not only don't bother me but bring out my admiration for her.
Do you ever think that, given your interests, if you grew up today you might be encouraged to transition?
Absolutely, but I was and am extremely independent and pigheaded, and I had no desire to "be a boy" as much as some tried to get me to believe that was my "problem." I always knew I was a girl that just liked atypical things. I can state with certainty that I would have told them to take a hike. I'm the proverbial wrench in the gears.
I can only imagine the beautiful things you could have made if kept on the track that aligned with the best of who you are. Brian, you found your way eventually. The school system is broken.
I can't help myself as I wish aptitude testing was provided early in in high school. So many “underachieving” students would feel validated and confident to pursue their aligned strengths. College is not for everybody. Becoming your best, however, is achievable.
Kudos Brian. Kudos. Thanks for speaking out. I am still a lover of fine, wood furniture. The craftsmanship of the old stuff is amazing.
I had the opposite experience in jr. high, in the 50s. I had to take shop classes, had no apptitude for any of them and hated every day in class. They were the only classes that I failed. All I wanted to do was play music. Fortunately there was a music program, and if it weren't for that, I would have dropped out of school.
That is awesome! I am happy for you.
I'm glad you figured out how to make your way. The secret is the joy. I tell people I've never "worked" a day in my life. I'm giddy thinking people are happy to pay us to do what we absolutely love.
Most electives have been wiped out in favor of 2-hour blocks of Math, English, Ethnic Studies etc. Factors like allegiance to academic te$ting, and the litigiou$ public suing districts over skinned knees have eliminated things like shop classes, internships, field trips, and band- all the things that made school tolerable.
I work in an inner-city school in CA, occasionally I'll see a kid with a guitar playing out in the hall and think there used to be classrooms and people dedicated to fostering that interest, now it is gone. The district has a ton of money, but the place is filthy, bathrooms locked, food terrible, no security. It's worse than prison, and surrounded by piles of garbage and homeless encampments. Our libraries are ghost towns if they even exist, field trips can only be to a lawyer-approved list of sites, and good luck getting the money.
And since none of this is working we are now being asked to rig the outcome, and offered extra money to inflate grades, by adopting "Equity Grading." Of course our kids are depressed, disrespectful of institutions, and retreat to the fantasy world in their pocket.
No physical education or real recreational time, either. I remember gym class in jr hi, took showers after gym at school. My kid, at same school 40 years later, said they don’t do any of that anymore. And so many out of shape kids, sitting all day!
I would have paid money to get rid of gym class, but know it was good for me.
We must stick together and keep fighting for the future.
A country that is going backward not forward. What a shame and a degradation of potential.
This is so important.
I believe depressed wages in the trades is probably the biggest problem we have, leading to a plethora of other problems, including unmarriable men, poverty, broken families, and drugs.
The crisis among boys is hardly new news. Christina Hoff Summers sounded the alarm two decades ago in her book The War Against Boys. Jordan Peterson has been sounding the alarm. Men of all skin tones, especially those who are masculine, have been in the crosshairs for decades, so of course they are pessimistic. And our society is grave danger because of it.
Also see The Boy Crisis by Warren Farrell and John Gray.
Boy's problems should be sorted out in the playground. By the third grade everyone knows their place in the pecking order. The girls in their turn already start to know who they like. It was always thus until the toxic leftists and the crazed feminists they engender were permitted to take over.
If you have children keep them out of the leftist feminization/indoctrination compounds cleverly disguised as public schools.
A final note is if you take your boy fishing and hunting you'll never need to hunt for your son.
Eschew leftism and it's deadly obfuscation.
'A final note is if you take your boy fishing and hunting you'll never need to hunt for your son.' A fine sentiment but not exactly true.... Probably you will have to go hunt for him on the next ridge or next cove over that you never had the courage to explore and he did to best his old man! But that's what we want, right?
Sat phones. ; )
"A final note is if you take your boy fishing and hunting you'll never need to hunt for your son."
My dad took me fishing, I never took to it, it was WAY to boring for me, I would rather be doing something. Maybe if he had given me a beer it would have been different...
Too. WAY too boring. That hasn't been our experience going back three generations from me and also two going forward. I'll agree beer helps. However it's the thrill of the hunt. That's why it's fishing though not always catching.
Your Mileage May Vary.
You are absolutely correct however even in 1960 when I was sent off to a foreign language school (Amercan because I don't speak "English") there were single parent children. The playground sorted who was who and who was best left at peace even if he didn't win every scuffle nor spoke the language. Some of those boys won pyrric victories though.
Glad that someone other than mothers of boys are finally noticing that something is wrong. I wrote about this issue over 20 years ago in my mommy blog. Meanwhile, Christina Sommers of AEI had sounded the alarm bells at that very time and no one in education or the sciences listened.
Now I have adult sons with multiple masters degrees in the right fields (the ones that the experts told them were part of the future-STEM, digital media) who can't even get job interviews. Deciding that maybe if they segue into something else they will be able to finally launch into the adulthood that is being denied to them. (You can't have a future working for minimum wage at McDonalds, or cleaning up other people's crap, no matter what anyone in Bidenland tells you how service jobs are great.) They are also not alone in this world where their options seem so limited.
You want to know why marriage and childbirth is down-this is why. If young men can't financially take care of themselves, how are they going to be a helpmate to anyone?
We raised our sons to be men. Real men -to honor and respect their family, nation and obligations. They were raised with the belief that doing all the right things, doing well in school and working hard, will produce benefits. Someday that is going to be respected once again in this country even for males.
I'm sorry to hear about your sons' troubles finding a job. I don't know much about digital media but I spent over 40 years in the software business until retiring recently. Everything I say may be something you've already heard, and too late anyway if he's already left the field. But my observation is that in tech there's less emphasis on degrees than in what you've done. I would counsel anyone in a similar situation to do your own personal projects that you are passionate about, and put them on your resume. Also consider contributing to an open source project. Creativity and the ability to self-teach are highly valued, since in a fast moving field a degree is often irrelevant in a few years anyway.
I have seen that in tech as well. I'm almost done after 34 years. My company used to have a pretty strict degree requirement but that has given way to just trying to find people who can actually do the job.
Thank you so very much for your thoughts. He has left the field already. But that doesn't mean he doesn't retain the skills, and in having information it doesn't mean he can't segue back and forth or even use his tech background to help in his new field. Every bit of counsel is greatly appreciated. :)
Yikes! What degrees specifically? Why can't they get job interviews? Too male? Wrong race? Or being replaced by AI?
The oldest has 2 Masters degrees-computer science and software engineering and the younger one has a degree in digital media and a masters in media and communication. No one knows why they cant get job interviews. The career office at university worked with my older one for years tweaking the resume and trying to figure this out. They were at a total loss. Both have left these fields and are looking into other opportunities. This started way before AI.
Having degrees is just a starting point, and collecting degrees is a trap to many. Sending out resumes and emails is not a measure of successfully pursuing a job, because technology has lowered the difficulty. Anyone can send an email or apply for a job now. Survival skills, aggression, chutzpah. And the schools teaching digital media are preying on fear. Digital media needs to be learned on the job. These skill-based bachelors and masters degrees are not as helpful as survival skills and human understanding, because they are too easily obtained. Your kids can turn this around immediately if they become willing to fight for what they want.
I have never seen someone with a software degree not be ale to get a really good job, really fast in my industry. Something has changed.
Honestly no one could figure out what the problem was. The career office at his university was simply systified. This is also a young man who did so well academically he was inducted into one of the academic honor societies...
Has the oldest one looked into working in medical imaging software? That's what my husband does (with a BS and no master's) and the field seems to really need good, competent people.
Where are they? Austin, Texas is still booming with tech.
This is the issue. They applied to any job that was applicable. They didn't just keep their area local. Yet, nothing. And you would have thought that during the pandemic when everything was remote it wouldn't matter where you lived. My husband and I are old school and don't know how the system works now. That is why we were glad that the career office tried to help. But even they had no answer as to what was going on. It is just so very odd.
ICBW but we still have people moving to the area in droves and the young people I know with skill sets similar to your sons' seem to be in demand. Everybody who is anybody in tech is in Austin. From Google to Tesla to Homeaway. Suggest that they investigate. Also everybody who is anybody interested military industrial complex is in Huntsville, Alabama and those are all tech jobs. Huntsville is a beautiful place too.
I agree. I started in Austin. I would say it is the biggest tech hub after Silicon Valley.
Thank you for your concern and suggestions. It is truly appreciated :)
Another huge factor is the drop-off in faith and worship among youth. Harvard epidemiologists VanderWeele, Li , and Kawachi estimated that nearly 40% of the increase in suicide (and by extension mental illness) stems from the decline in religious service attendance.
Patrick oh that is a very good point. But that loss of faith or a shared value that is bigger than yourself is affecting all demographics, except maybe satanists. ;-)
Yes, and Haidt used to take religion in some account. I see he's giving up on that, at least here.
Perhaps it’s in the book but he simply didn’t comment on it here for sake of space. Because I hear a recent interview with Haidt on the Russel Moore show and they did talk about the decline in religion.
Yes, K. B., that's probably so, but the decline of religion is the main reason for the lack of meaning in the lives of our youth. If "they" had just kept the Boy Scouts, that would have helped.
It’s def a main contributor— Haidt said in the interview that youth raised in religious communities do have lower levels of depression/anxiety/self-harm rates on average.
He is trying to fit the proverbial square peg into the round hole.
Thank you for the article, Jonathan. I wish more people would read this and share it with friends that have boys. I myself have two girls but I have recognized for years, long before I had kids, that the world, in the US at least, created groups, scholarships, opportunities, etc. specifically for girls with nothing directed towards boys. I am not at all surprised by your findings or those making similar determinations. I have already started to the the link to your article and plan on diving deeper into this topic. I am even working towards my psych degree (later in life) to be one of those seemingly rare creatures, a male therapist to work with police and combat vets. However it would seem, that men in general are looking for male therapists.
While the article is interesting (I have a 14 year old boy), I’m struck by the fact that someone reviewed data, consulted another expert and actually changed his mind on an important topic. A rare and refreshing thing these days. Kudos Mr Haidt.
Boys and girls are not okay because their families are not okay. Their families are not okay because of divorce culture. Any study that isn’t addressing the root causes of child trauma (fatherlessness) is not about helping children. It’s about propping up adult autonomy over against children’s rights.
No. Fault. Divorce. R-i-i-i-ght.
One thing I learned about boys after marrying my husband is the effect of pornography on their psyche. My husband feels the he was exposed far too early and found it traumatizing. He credits the military and his deployment for breaking his addiction. He convinced me that if we give smartphones or laptops to our boys they will fall victim to these major corporations that push the material. It predatory and perverted that we do not demand organizations like mindgeek verify that children are not accessing adult content.
It doesn't help that teachers are heavily over represented by woman and that teachers lean left which from the 1970s onward has meant the people boys are led by spend an inordinate amount of time demeaning, condescending and ridiculing normal male behavior. Boys grow up being told at the same time, woman and men are equal but you mow the lawn, don't hit girls even if they hit you because you're stronger, you sign up for the draft to sacrifice your life to protect woman, you protect the woman in the family, you are responsible and she is not because you are a man and she is a woman, you open the doors for them, you respect their emotions, you stop being so emotional yourself, boys don't cry, boys keep a stiff upper lip, on and on and on but remember woman and men, boys and girls are 100% equal! More than that, we have to prioritize girls because of 'ma patriarchy... m' 'kay...
I tell ya' it's a f* racket!
Part of it too is that teenage boys are being shepherded onto a social media that is just as addictive but not nearly as rewarding for them as it is for girls. The result is that boys are spending similar amounts of time on TikTok, but getting far less value from it. Now, instead of playing video games themselves, they're watching videos of other people playing them. Soon, they'll take another step outside of reality and, as a a meta-version of themselves, watch videos of other meta versions of other people playing video games. It's hard to imagine how the death-march toward this meaningless void ends. Or, maybe it's easy. Take your kid's phone tell them to kick around a soccer ball. The problem is that electronic devices require far less behavioral management (also known as parenting and spending quality time with your kids) from adults. The same is true in schools for teachers. Society is taking the easy way out, and the kids are suffering because of it.
Another excellent analysis of the spiraling unhappiness of America’s youth. The causes seem readily apparent. What’s puzzling is that, beyond articles describing the situation, there have been no actions to address the drivers of the problem - social media and video games, bias against males, outsourcing our industries, education becoming indoctrination. America’s future is its young people and it is being methodically destroyed while we talk about the First Amendment. The real question is when are we going to stop being observers and address these root causes. The first step is to identify who benefits from this. Any ideas?
Who benefits? The globalists.
Perhaps, although globalists are all about profits. My sense is that this is more about those that wish to destroy America and her individual liberties.
It is both I think. The globalist want plantation economies and free people do not make good slaves.
🪒🛎️🔨
You've got it.
Steve Jobs thought he was giving the world a tool for a quantum leap in human productivity and creative agency. He did. But the net negative impact of the smart phone and its evil spawn, social media, is incontrovertibly born out in the numbers. I see these downcast, slouching young men today who look like they want to disappear. It’s very sad. I would love to put Job’s genie back in the bottle.
For those reading, I thought you might like to know the following.
For every 100 girls who die of suicide:
170 boys 10-14 die of suicide
330 boys 15-19 die of suicide
461 boys 20-24 die of suicide
425 boys 25-29 die of suicide
Total Deaths 2018-2022: Male 189,213 (79%); Female 50,301
(https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D176/D356F707)
For every 100 girls who die of an overdose
115 boys 10-14 years old die of an overdose
228 boys 15-19 die of an overdose
252 boys 20-24 die of an overdose
272 boys 25-29 die of an overdose
Total Deaths: Male 284,806 (71%); Female 118,084
(https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D176;jsessionid=75AA763E4F586DE701719F40C466).
Jonathan, Thanks for the great observations and concern for our nation's sons. They truly are struggling, as are our girls. When it comes to understanding the despair associated with the self reporting of depression and pessimism, girls are more likely to express their despair. Boys are far more likely to actualize their depression and pessimism. And, I would argue that it has more to do with the lack of a cultural recognition of the importance of the masculine and less to do with an ability to express feelings. People who feel comfortable and safe are more likely to express themselves and regulate their emotions. The pessimism is the first part and acting out the pessimism is the second part.
In education: Go to any state in the country, and you will see that boys score lower than girls in reading. And this cuts across racial lines as well.
And, from 2016 to 2020, 2.85 million more women than men graduated from college (https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d18/tables/dt18_318.10.asp). These are staggering numbers.