From day one of Putin’s invasion, photographer Lynsey Addario was on the ground capturing moments of ruin—and heroic resolve. One year later, she says it’s unlike any war she’s ever covered.
“The United States, in 2022, funneled at least $68 billion to the Ukrainians in the form of military hardware and humanitarian aid”
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No matter what your position is, we need to be able to agree that it is absolutely insane for the United States to be paying for any of this.
Europe has money. Allow me to repeat that for emphasis. EUROPE HAS MONEY.
Sell them all the weapons you want. Sell them the fighter jets. Sell them nukes. Let them pay us to train their guys if necessary. Whatever. Don’t care.
But this is THEIR PROBLEM. They can f***ing pay for it.
Kevin, we are depleting our stocks of weapons for Ukraine and we have no facilities to remanufacture them fast enough. And China is watching and waiting. Even if Europe paid us for all the stuff we are sending over, we would still be making ourselves less and less protected.
It was in the 2012 presidential debate that Obama mocked Romney for saying that Russia was a threat, he told Romney that was so last century. So what happened? Russia has become the bogeyman for democrats, cover for all the bad things they are doing themselves. And deflecting our attention from China.
Democrat administrations back to Clinton have been stirring this pot. I have a chilling suspicion about all that Burisma money and the Afghanistan withdrawal. Yet most just blindly refer to Putin's aggression. How about some nuance and context from "journalists"?
Don’t hold your breath, if one wants a different view point one has to get out of the echo chamber. There are lot of other sources where one can get information on what’s happening like eg the Epoch Times is fabulous.
I read a great piece from AL JAZEERA the other day going over the Ukraine war. It was well written and balanced. How is it that I get excellent journalism from AL JAZEERA??
I’m certain that blaming Trump’s win on Russian interference and all that ensued was setting the table and laying the groundwork for present Russian relations-especially the Dems and rinos
Brilliant comment today, we all appear to be able to see and understand what the Democrats are doing yet we remain powerless to do anything about it. We have to really push for reforms to our elections, to our $$$ etc, otherwise the deflecting of attention on China will soon become a reality, that we won’t have much left in our arsenal to ward them off.
Respectfully disagree, NC. I think a large reason (but not the only one) why we (the US) are acting aggressively in arming Ukraine and marshalling support from other democracies around the world in defence of that country is to signal to China not to get loose with the idea of an unprovoked attack on Taiwan. They need to know there's a line in the sand, somewhere. I think China has all of our attention, since at least 2016. And Trump, rightfully, was a part of that.
You're right about Romney, though. He was correct in that debate in 2012. If he was younger I would think he should run again for the WH. (Though I don't think he would get too much support on this thread..)
Lee, I'm not sure how depleting our military assets in Ukraine is a signal to China not to attack Taiwan. To me it is the opposite - depleting our resources in this manner sends a clear go-ahead signal.
In a possible scenario where we're facing off with China over Taiwan - to me it will be naval and air force assets the most important. We haven't sent any of those to Ukraine, not yet. Taiwan will not be a land battle..
Liberals have zero issue with spending this much money. You have to see the comments on the WSJ. ON THE WSJ. One comment said at least no American has been killed. I couldn't believe the arrogance and ignorance.
Liberals have flooded the WSJ boards. Moreover, the WSJ is complicit by employing a squadron of leftist "moderators" who take down any post even mildly offensive to Biden. As least my post yesterday on the Biden photo with Ukrainian troops who looked like they smelled a noxious odor, remarking "America Depends on Joey" survived long enough to garner several laughs before being removed.
Bruce it's gotten ridiculously bad. It was ok when they went to a new comment system, the moderators had a hands off approach. Sometime last year the Hall Monitors descended and began censoring the conservatives. It's a joke. Luckily my $4/month online subscription is about as much as I am willing to pay. But I barely comment on that trash comment section anymore. The people here are more engaging and intelligent anyways.
Much more intelligent and engaging I think save your $4 cancel your sub by the end of the year you will have $48 dollars maybe you can buy a chocolate milkshake it’s much better than the WSJ
Digital only. Not sure. I see these deals. This one was a cyber monday deal. Good for 1 year. I will cancel. If they run that deal next cyber monday I may do it again. That's all it's worth
I am seriously considering canceling my longstanding WAJ subscription. 30 years but the leftward slant of news and the Mods fascism is reducing its usefulness.
I don't blame you. There are still a couple good journalists - Kim Strassel. But that alone may not be enough. I've called and complained numerous times. They don't care.
True. But that kills the cash flow to American defense contractors. The plan is to see how many civilians and ordinary people on both sides can be killed while maximizing returns to the military-industrial complex. It’s a very old and tiresome story.
Look at this gem I just read on the comments section-
"You can tell a lot about a country by who its friends are. We're edging closer to a world wide war, a war of murderous tyrants against democracy and the rule of law. We've been down this road before and many, some even holding positions of power in the Trumpublican party, are showing us they know nothing of history. "
Where are all the peaceniks ? Where is peace now? Where are the left wing protesters who spit on American soldiers returning from viet Nam? When I was discharged in 1967 I was told not to wear my uniform when I got home.
You sound like the America Firsters of the 1930s who would have let Hitler and the NAZIs rampage across Europe, Russia, the Middle East and Africa rather than take action to support freedom and democracy. Appeasement didn't work then, and it won't stop Putin now. Trump and his coterie think they can play nice with that tyrant (and maybe make money off a deal for a Moscow hotel), if they sell out the Ukrainians and our NATO allies. They are fools, throwbacks to the America Firsters and the idea that we can build a wall of security around America by isolating ourselves from the troubles of the world.
Biden’s decision to allow Afghanistan to collapse for a few domestic political points was quit likely the reason Putin felt there would be little pushback when he invaded Ukraine. History is rife with examples of where incompetent leadership and decision making leads to greater tragedies.
It is absolutely a proxy war. With the MIC crossing lines as they salivate over it. Disgusting. Those people in those pics are paying the human price. Americans who still pay taxes are paying the monetary price.
Well said, Bruce. But as I stated to NCMaureen, when people are stuck in a time warp with Trump, facts and reason do not appear to get through no matter how much evidence is presented. It’s a sad, sad situation.
I didn’t have time to come here yesterday and it’s just as well. The photos are horrific and Americans lying about the war against Ukraine and attacking people in the other party instead of attacking the villain are disturbing.
Biden is corrupt and cognitively impaired but neither he nor Nato nor Zelensky nor anyone in Ukraine, nor anyone else on earth or in Hell, not even Tucker Carlson, provoked Putin into engaging in this completely unjustified war on Ukraine.
And anyone who thinks attacks on sovereign nations isn't America’s business is short sighted.
As a conservative I am very disappointed by the demonstrable ignorance of some clueless people on the American right regarding this war. It is as black and white as anything I’ve seen in my 76 years. Tucker Carlson is an idiot. Every decent person cares.
Nothing is ever “black and white”. I’m surprised that in your 76 years you haven’t learned that.
It’s true there is no justification for what murderous Putin has done in Ukraine. There never will be.
However, as to provocation you should look back to 2014 and before. Do some reading about NATO encroachment perhaps. Even NPR and the Guardian have covered the subject, shockingly.
Being blind to enquiring why Putin acts as he does is intellectually vapid. And it doesn’t make facts go away or less of a reality. War is inherently propagandistic, it’s up to involved citizens to dig for truth.
So blanket implying people aren’t decent people who “care” because they question the media/government narrative is specious at best. It’s the default for those who wish to silence others.
What I’m surprised at is your lack of curiosity to get to the whole story and question both sides. Especially since, if I’m remembering correctly, you have a legal background.
Rape and murder are clearly black and white. Given that don’t know enough to know that I’m not surprised by the rest of your stupid comment. You incorrectly assume you know why I think what I do. I have questioned the Media narrative for 55 years. And even though I have issues with Trump I recognized that contrary to the Media narrative he was a very good POTUS and was maliciously maligned. I have been shunned by family members because I defended him.
Yes, I was one of a handful to get an A in evidence in law school and as a trial lawyer I separated the wheat from the chaff on a daily basis. Most people in life take the path of least resistance. Putin is an evil bastard. There is absolutely no justification for this invasion and his war crimes.
And what did America do once it entered the war? It turned the country into a war material manufacturing machine. Is that happening now as we deplete our stocks and leave ourselves weakened? It will take over a decade to replace the stingers etc we have shipped over to Ukraine. If we started now. Do we have that kind of time?
Meanwhile, we have 100,000 Americans dying every years from fentanyl from Mexico. That is 2x the deaths of the entire Vietnam war. Each year. And the war mongering democrats do nothing.
And as of now the same number of deaths of Ukrainians that we’ve spent billions trying to prevent. Biden and his admin have no interest in protecting American borders and the safety of citizens. They don’t even make it part of their agenda! Biden chose Ukraine and Zelensky over our open borders and the residents of East Palestine…enough said. He’s ruined this country in ways democrats don’t even realize yet!
Well said, NCMaureen. However, James McDermott is stuck in a time warp, as many are, when it comes to Trump. So I doubt he will listen to your reasoned argument.
Trump unleashed American energy which helped keep oil at $40 per barrel crippling Russia and Iran. Biden and his globalists cut American energy which has enriched Russia.
Trump was the ideal, unpredictable Executive that kept the world safe. Learn some things.
“Trump and his coterie think they can play nice with that tyrant (and maybe make money off a deal for a Moscow hotel), if they sell out the Ukrainians and our NATO allies”
Funny thing is, Putin DIDN’T invade Ukraine when Trump was president. Putin’s first invasion began when a bunch of corrupt Ukrainian “little Putins” signed onto the coup engineered by Obama’s foreign policy geniuses back in 2014. Lo and behold their “success” precipitated Putin’s prompt annexation of Crimea. Once those same geniuses started running Biden’s foreign policy, what did Putin do? He invaded the whole freakin country. It’s not like Putin didn’t warn the Ukrainians and the US what was going to happen if the warmongering MIC parasites here kept insisting that Ukraine become a NATO member or drift into the EU orbit.
So, ask yourself why after 4 years of relative calm under Trump’s foreign policy Putin suddenly decided to invade Ukraine AGAIN. Is it a coincidence that it didn’t occur until the same crew who insisted on regime changes in Syria, Libya and Ukraine during the Obama administration became masters of the universe again? Again, if Putin was so dead set on taking Ukraine, why didn’t he invade when Trump was president? Maybe the answer is Trump had no interest in a country as corrupt as Ukraine. Certainly, he had no interest in obligating America to defend them or any other two-bit country as a NATO member. Nor did he have any interest in remaining NATO’s sugar daddy while deadbeats like the Germans we saw snickering https://youtu.be/FfJv9QYrlwg during Trumps prophetic UN speech, refused to pony up their club dues. Those were hardly views that would make Putin feel threatened.
Ironically, the man warmongering democrats and republicans smeared as a Russian stooge and impeached as a traitor somehow managed to keep relative peace in Ukraine. Now that Trump is gone, those same warmongers have in short order reduced Ukrainians to cannon fodder.
I remember all the talk during the Trump years of how he would get us into wars, OMG he's gonna have his finger on the nuclear button!, he will start WW3! Nothing of the sort happen. But with Biden we are closer to all of that. This is why I will never ever believe what the Democrats and the media spew, it's lies and it's their agenda-driven narrative.
The Ukrainians that I know emphatically believe that the 2014 election was rigged by the Russians and that what followed wasn't a coup, but a popular revolt against it which caused the installed Russian stooge president to flee the country and new elections to be held. I don't think the military was involved at all. Isn't that a necessary part of a coup?
Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland was the mastermind behind the February 22, 2014 “regime change” which by any other name is a coup. I wouldn’t be surprised if the election of Yanukovych was rigged but with Ukraine being one of the most corrupt countries in Europe at the time who knows who was better at rigging elections. Regardless, he got elected and even agreed to early elections but was forced to flee to Russia when neo-Nazis and other ultra-nationalists overran government buildings. The rest is a rather sad and sordid tale that will likely get even uglier.
'Trump had no interest in a country as corrupt as Ukraine. Certainly, he had no interest in obligating America to defend them or any other two-bit country as a NATO member. Nor did he have any interest in remaining NATO’s sugar daddy..'
You ask why didn't Putin invade Ukraine while Trump was still in power, Timothy - but you've answered your own question. Putin well understood that in Trump's heart, no matter what Trump publicly said, he didn't want to fund NATO, he didn't want to defend Europe, he didn't give a rat's ass about the EU - therefore NATO was not a threat to Putin. Without American leadership Europe would stay compliant to Russia and NATO would remain neutered. Thus why invade?
You’re totally ignorant. Trump, who failed on many fronts and is not that smart, told Europe that they needed to cut their dependence on Russia and they literally laughed at him.
You, like a buffoon, think that the people who opposed Trump on this issue, who were proven to be simpleton dipshits, are smart.
Trump said that, yes. Big deal. We all saw years ago that Merkel was a fool. A grade 10 student could figure out that you don't put all your eggs in one basket. Even you could come up with that.
Trump wanted nothing to do with Europe. That was obvious.
No no no I appreciate this comment because what you are saying is a persuasive argument if you’re a retarded person.
You are basically a Holocaust denier if you compare 2020 Putin to Hitler. Maybe exploiting the Holocaust to scare people isn’t the exact same thing as Holocaust denial, but it is similar.
How about what happens when someone dares to protest this war we are in? That feels like Nazi Germany to me (gearing up to it). And I know. No one is getting arrested. Instead they are publicly castrated.
If it feels like Nazi Germany, you need only refer to Fat Herman's game book. Here it is:
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
So, naturally our friends on the left and their media handmaidens screech "Russian Puppet!" or "Putin Stooge" whenever one dares question this insanity.
Kevin, you are losing me. I generally agree with you more or less. But when you start calling people retarded you aren't winning any arguments. Its and admission you have no argument.
I'll agree these are comparable when I see tens of thousands of college students across the entire country rioting and protesting out of hatred for Joe Biden, and when I see nearly every media and cultural outlet in the country seething in hate for Joe Biden.
Then, I will agree BDS is a real thing.
In the meantime, I'm glad your comment gives legitimacy to what we call TDS.
Your TDS has given you brain fog. When has Putin threaten Europe? Never. It’s not Germany. Remember Europe has invaded Russia several times. You knowledge of history is amazing. As well as your gullibility in falling for Military Industrial Complex and neocon BS propaganda. Dumb Democrat Disease is my guess.
I respectfully suggest you do some research on the role of the US under Obama and Biden with Victoria Nuland, the same players in place today (don’t think Obama is silent). You may learn something about the root cause of this war and the part the US has had in promoting it, along with Boris Johnson in the UK.
There were to be negotiations in the beginning, bu the US aided by Johnson talked Zelensky out of it. Of course it’s not their skin in the game is it, they’re not the ones dying, the cretinous creatures.
I’m not surprised that Americans don’t know anything about the recent history of Eastern Europe or have no experience of rebelling against a dictatorial regime - lucky you. It disgusts me deeply to see how ignorant, couch historian Americans automatically think it’s impossible that East Europeans could actually fight and die for their freedom, that they can only do something when paid and directed by the CIA or some other dark actors. Projection problem, isolationist America?
Americans don’t need to support financial backing for anything but the comments are dripping with so much conceit and ignorance. Americans only know how to view the world with their own America-colored glasses, be it on the right or left.
You do understand that the Russians fought Hitler too? Nobody knows what Putin would have done, including Putin himself. Nobody knows what he is going to do now. But rah, rah, boom, cis, boom bah. Cheer on.
Sure, but the Ukraine is not invading Russia. And to a large extent, Ukraine is a large part of that region that armies have historically gone to die. Where's Stalingrad?
You're right, my gut is telling me the Western Globalists seem to be escalating to invasion of some sort. Putin cannot give up or he will die and our 'president' is basically saying we won't either.
Long before it was a country it was, as JC correctly states, a region known as the Ukraine. A very important region for several reasons. Additionally the region has been historically close to Russia and was a founding member of the USSR. There is no magic wand to make that history disappear. Hence the statement in this article that at the start of the Russian offensive the Ukraines thought of them as cousins.
Ah yes, the appeasement canard. You know what also doesn't work? This satanic idea of American/NATO superpower invulnerability, with superhuman wisdom and perspicacity to properly arbitrate, manipulate and intervene in all disputes and injustices on the planet.
Argumentum ad Hiterlam is just so tired. There are millions of considerations that go into warmaking, and we surely don't have a great case for a just war under the divine moral law here. American blood and treasure should not be spilled as a result.
Smartest thing you've said today! In truth, we're killing Ukrainians with our aid. They would be better off had they capitulated from the start and begun a guerilla campaign. There would be some dead men, sure, but all those women and children would be alive.
About 90% of the comments just on this thread show exactly zero human compassion on a story that is about obvious human suffering. Only carping about how much money America spends to fight the New Cold War imposed by Putin. Watch out for the time Putin will force you to put your own lives on the line, not just your money. I used to think that when the West sold Eastern Europe to Stalin in slavery in 1945, it was just the mistake of a FDR just as decrepit as Biden is today. Seeing the meteoric rise of the toxic American ultra nationalistic isolationism, I realize that the fault really lies with ignorant Americans who can’t entertain more than one thought at a time. Just because the lying MSM said that Ukraine’s defense is noble, a bunch of armchair lazy thinkers decided it must be ignoble, because that’s the depth of their thought. Besides, Carlson Tucker said so, so “independent thinkers” must follow.
Sure, we bombed Ukraine. Poor Putin, you know, the one who claimed just before the invasion that there’s no invasion, it’s just an American lie, he didn’t have any choice. Or maybe you’re one of those types who after months of Russian ferocious bombing were still claiming that the Ukrainians were bombing their own cities. Are you always that obtuse or it’s only when prompted by Fox ?
So poor Racoon Putin has no choice, he’s a victim of the warmongering US, fresh from their victory in Afghanistan, and the bloodthirsty West Europeans, who can’t provide even thermal underwater for their armies. Did you ever hear of 300 years of Russian imperialism and colonialism, or that’s too complicated for your $79.99/mo newsletter?
Exactly, Kevin. Utterly destroyed and I am sure Andy will demand that your(not his) taxpayer dollars go to rebuild it with approved contractor's paid by American politicians.
So what's your plan genius? Is it the same one we " toxic American ultra nationalistic" types were given for Iraq? How about the master plan for Afghanistan? How about Syria and Libya?
Or is it the Vietnam plan? You know, the one where "we had to destroy it to save it".
If you genius would be old enough to have lived during the Cold War, or at least able to read something about it, you would know how things happened then and how things will happen now. It was always amazing how the woke, on their side, are blind to history and always pick only what suits them. Same in your ultranationalistic, anti-historical, self-defeating isolationism. America always blunders but eventually gets things right - or else you would now be living in the communist Gulag, which actually might have been an enlightening experience for ignorant Americans.
I remember the Cold War. I remember our assurances against NATO expansion given to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner when it finally ended. I also remember the words of one of its architects, Geoge F. Keenan, the best known advocate of the successful policy of containment of Soviet expansion during the Cold War when it became clear that we lied. Here’s an excerpt from, “A Fateful Error,” New York Times, 05 Feb 1997:
“Why, with all the hopeful possibilities engendered by the end of the Cold War, should East-West relations become centered on the question of who would be allied with whom and, by implication, against whom in some fanciful, totally unforeseeable and most improbable future military conflict?”
“[B]luntly stated…expanding NATO would be the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-Cold War era. Such a decision may be expected to inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion; to have an adverse effect on the development of Russian democracy; to restore the atmosphere of the cold war to East-West relations, and to impel Russian foreign policy in directions decidedly not to our liking … ”
If you end up in a Gulag, it's because you and like minded fools failed to heed those words.
True enough that Keenan warned the West. And then there's that little hiccup of history - when Putin signalled he wanted Russia to join NATO, shortly after he became President. (Or at least that's the story). Could anyone possibly imagine what China would feel like right now with a full fledged NATO partner on its borders?
true but why this war? why now? these pictures could come from literally anywhere on the planet, they aren't unique to Ukraine. There are countless conflicts all over the globe that we choose not to be involved in as I write this - we even chose to withdraw from conflict after leaving billions upon billions of equipment, because we were all told we must resist "endless wars."
Then we wake up to this and we are all supposed to get on board. I think it's fair to ask why.
Absolutely, and the answer is that this war is different then, let’s say, a war between Ethiopia and Eritrea or the long tussle between Germany and France over Alsace and Lorraine, although all wars are horrible. America has a hard time accepting it, but this is an existential fight, just like the old Cold War was, and the war in Ukraine is just the beginning. It’s not even a new Cold War; only Americans eager to grab illusory “peace dividends” would think so. The US has two choices: let the imperialistic dictatorships win first (because China stands fast behind Russia and is even more dangerous) and intervene later at great expense, or contain the dictatorships now, before sacrificing countless American lives.
this is a great point. there's no question china/north korea/Iran are watching and waiting to see what we will do about it as they lick their chops and wait to pounce on their own ideological enemies. I could get on board with this if I thought this administration had the teeth and the wherewithal to formulate a cohesive foreign policy that communicated a "no tolerance" sort of message. but can anyone make a straight-faced argument that we have any of that right now?
We either go with what we have, hopefully much better in 2024, or we just tell Russia and China that the US is falling apart and the world belongs to them. I have less than zero trust in the Biden administration, but their attitude and results changed much between the Afghanistan debacle and the war in Ukraine. Seeing things only in black or white doesn’t lead to far.
"About 90% of the comments just on this thread show exactly zero human compassion on a story that is about obvious human suffering." - Maybe because we recognize one-sided Western propaganda when we see it. Did you notice there was ZERO mention of the suffering of Russian civilians in Ukraine? Who, it could be argued, have suffered FAR WORSE fates at the hands of the neo-Nazi battalions that make up most of the Ukrainian military; and about whom an equally tear-jerker story could've been written. But it wasn't. Why not? Where's the compassion for those ethnic Russian civilians?
It’s never a good idea to argue with a conspiracy theorist, but please explain to me your logical aberration: if “ neo-Nazi battalions” make up most of the Ukrainian army after one year of war and 100,000 losses, then Ukraine must have a huge, endless supply of neo-Nazis, but your neo-Nazis got only 2% of the votes in free elections n Ukraine (you know, the kind of elections that don’t exist in Russia). Or maybe all your neo-Nazis and “suffering Russian civilians” exist only in Putin’s propaganda from which you are fed?
No, they would be raped and transferred to Russia. If Ukrainians thought they would be better off without the aid, then by now they would have overthrown Zelensky. Say what you want about American policy but you have no ability to speak for what another nation wants, even presuming you did speak Ukrainian.
Qualify for what, to speak in the name of another country or nation? I don’t presume to. If Ukraine wants or doesn’t want to bargain with Russia that is their prerogative. I sarcastically responded to your comment because you assume you know what’s best for them, when you just have an opinion about what you think is best for America.
It isn’t their prerogative when we are paying for it.
You are in no position to criticize anyone because we are currently executing your “death for Donbas” strategy and the country has been totally destroyed.
All of the rapes and murders are on you because we are doing your plan right now.
It’s fine to say the other plan would be worse but you still have to eat the results of your plan. We are doing your plan.
“Ohhh JD Vance is dumb tho!!!”
Okay cool but we aren’t doing JD Vance’s plan. We are doing your plan. How’s it going? Shitty? Okay let’s keep pushing tho…….
“One year later, Kyiv stands, and Ukraine stands. Democracy stands,” Biden declared.
Who knows what Biden actually saw during his photo shoot in Kiev. My guess is he didn’t see what Lynsey Addario has seen, or will see “as long as it takes” for Biden and his war mongering pals in the senate to realize that Putin isn’t going to stop the killing and destruction until he controls northern and eastern Ukraine. When that finally happens, and it will happen, the only thing left standing will be blood covered rubble.
Do you truly believe Putin would be content with just northern and eastern Ukraine? All indications are not. What happened the last time Europe attempted to compromise with a dictator bent on Lebensraum? "Peace in our time"? Not exactly.
What indications do you have that Putin wants more? With the population of Ukraine being 43 million vs. the Russians 143 million, what makes you think Ukraine can stop Putin if he does? Do the math and you have a long conflict that even General Milley says Ukraine can't win.
What indications do you have that the Americans have the will to involve themselves in a war that can't be won? Better yet, why should we care? If you want a reason why we shouldn't, think Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan...
You make some excellent points, and I don't claim enough expertise in that subject to even debate them. Abandoning Ukraine to the wolves is also not the answer. All I can say is - as a Jew whose people have always been at the mercy of others until recently - there is inherent value in defending a free people from those who wish to subjugate them.
If the Russians are committing crimes against humanity, as VP Harris says, then why are we doing no more than giving them weapons to destroy their own country?
If we are unwilling to put boots on the ground and planes in the air, then the war is lost. I am not recommending doing either of those.
The most absurd comment ever. Sure, let the Russians “de-Ukrainize” Ukraine the standard Soviet way, the way Stalin did it in the Baltic states, the territories stolen from Finland or from Romania (current “Moldova”). Physical elimination of anybody who was in politics, army, police and even teachers, Gulag for their relatives, interdiction to speak the native language, mass deportation to Siberia. Clueless, heartless Americans who just ape whatever opinions that hear on cable TV.
The war is already lost. According to former USMC intelligence officer and UN weapons inspector Scott Ritter: "Don’t believe the hype. Ukraine can’t win this war."
This is absolutely a global problem. Putin has made it clear from day one that the West (the US and Western Europe) is his enemy, and Ukraine is just the beginning. China is eagerly waiting in the wings to see how much resolve the West has in stopping him and others from taking what they want. It won't be more than a hot minute before they take Taiwan and move into more countries in East Asia - why do you think Japan just pledged $5.5 billion to Ukraine and will host the G7 Summit with Zelensky? And Iran is now playing nice with Russia for the first time in hundreds of years. We need to quit this isolationist fantasy thinking and understand the geopolitical ramifications of pretending this is just a European conflict. Most of our experienced foreign intelligence leaders understand this.
Agree that we have an interest, but I think most of us realize that the current strategy is doomed in Russia like Hitler and Napoleon found out. Our 'leadership' has no idea what they are doing(or they are doing this on purpose) starting with removing all of our weapons like cheap energy development which has only helped Russia. Everything the U.S. has done aside from sending materiel to Ukraine has only helped Russia(e.g. sanctions).
Trump had everything under control making our country energy independent and strategically working with other coalitions and using moves of US strength. Our 'leaders' have now removed any leverage we have and I think it is by design and it will not end well for anyone except Russia.
Yip most of Jeannine’s post is a photo op. Zelensky in Japan is a photo op, FJB in Ukraine and Poland a photo op. President Trump would never have allowed this to go down, he sorted it all out. Told NATO countries to pay there share, he stopped the pay for slay in Gaza and the WB by cutting back the $$$. More importantly he stopped the Iran deal of reaching enrich uranium. Today it looks like the complete opposite to what he put in place for America. It’s beginning to sink in how little this current President understands about the situation he has brought upon Americans including the Covid debacle. The Legacy media doesn’t help either.
Those so-called "experienced foreign intelligence leaders" you speak of are nothing more than MIC puppets seeing $$$ as long as this conflict is (intentionally) dragged on.
We "isolationists" you decry understand this. Putin would NOT have intervened in Ukraine had the US/NATO kept their grubby hegemonic hands off that country back in 2014.
If that was what the US was thinking during WWII, the world today would have been a much grimmer place. I believe that the situation regarding Russia today is very similar.
It's also total BS that this is the problem of Europe and not our problem. Russia is very openly saying that they are planning to attack one of the NATO countries next (Poland or one of the Baltic states were mentioned). If Ukraine loses and the Russians do that, we our bound by NATO treaties to help. And when that happened it won't be only Ukrainian soldiers paying with their lives anymore.
And by the way, Europe is sending money and ammunition, some of the countries are sending a big fraction of military equipment that they own, and many of them are giving aid to Ukraine that is higher in terms of percentage of their GDP than the US.
My son has degrees in Russian and political science. He traveled to Moscow in 2018. He is saying exactly the same things you are. This war in Ukraine breaks his heart - he hates what Putin is doing and believes we need to do whatever it takes to stop him, because he will not stop in Ukraine. And he's the biggest American patriot there is.
Not to mention that by supporting Ukraine the Europeans are being deprived of energy and struggling to replace Russian supplies. They are doing their part.
You are the liar. And it's very easy information to find, you didn't even bother to google. As for calling people "teething rodent" I don't even know what to say. I won't respond to you anymore. This behavior is beyond despicable. And FYI I'm a US citizen and don't have a Ukrainian citizenship. I live in the US.
I, too, am at that point. It's sad to see, really. Generally these comments refrain from this level of name-calling and, basically, grade-school verbal bullying and abuse. I used to follow and participate heavily in the WSJ and NR comments - two rather expensive subscriptions which I kept for years past their expiration dates because there were some surprisingly diverse, intelligent opinions and ideas that would pop up in their comments threads. But both were taken over by a small handful of abusive commenters screaming at each other and one morning it struck me that I really didn't want to sit and drink my coffee in the middle of a bunch of fighting children; I cancelled my subscriptions. I miss several of the op ed writers, but the exceptional articles show up elsewhere anyway. I hope THP doesn't go the same way. Police yourselves people, or you're only going to be few people screaming back and forth.
One of them had a feature that you could block a particular poster. That kept me going longer than anything else. Right now if TFP had that I would click that link and never see another thing Kevin posts. His wit and intelligent comments do not outweigh this witless loss of control and overall degradation to the overall comments threads. I'd press that button.
You want me to send you a clip from Russian TV where they are saying this? Do you understand Russian? They do it practically every day. The TV is 100% state controlled.
Here they are saying how they'll destroy Poland in one hour: https://twitter.com/jatsenkoirina/status/1627271131303387136 (no English translation for this one, sorry, but because I'm sure you want to know the truth you'll find yourself some Russian-speaking person to translate).
Threats to attack Poland and Baltic countries are a daily thing (and prior to the war it was the same with Ukraine). Unfortunately not much is available in English. These are the main Russian TV channels, directly controlled by Kremlin.
Because I speak Russian (my native language), I can actually follow that stuff and see what is actually going on. Unfortunately many people in the US don't get direct access to this information and choose to believe some made up things.
"Euro countries are providing perhaps 5% of the effort." since you talk about proofs, let's have it.
No, Russia was carefully preparing for this war for many years, and this included indocrinating their own population via TV against Ukraine. For many years a huge fraction of state TV time was taken up by verbal attacks against Ukraine, as if a great country like Russia has nothing else to talk about. At the time I also thought this was just some kind of stupid way of enterntaining themselves but now I know better.
Right now a very heavy indocrination against the west, and some specific countries, continues. This is completely different from just "spouting bullshit". And if you did follow Russian media and politics, it would have been clear to you that this has absolutely nothing to do with US war mongers challenging anyone, and everything to do with Putin's great ambitions.
There are some Russians who protest this war too. I remember early in the conflict they were arresting people who were holding up placards objecting to it. So new people started showing up with blank placards for awhile, which was amazingly clever. And THEY were getting arrested. I've wondered if any of that is still going on or if they're too scared now and have given up.
Right now there is very heavy indoctrination ... by the West. The Neocons, the MIC, the DC fools all are gungho for war. Lots of money for military contractors, lots of stars to put on epaulets for newly minted generals in the Pentagon, lots of bluster so Joey Biden can spout off at a podium in Poland, further challenging Putin and ratcheting things up. And so Incompetent Harris can make war crimes allegations and insist that folks will be held to account. Not sure that is going to dissuade your pal Putin. But it will stiffen his resolve and bluster - as happened the next day when he tossed the missiles and nuke arms agreements.
I am ambivalent about the US support to Ukraine. I harken back to "'Peace for our time' was a declaration made by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain in his 30 September 1938 remarks in London concerning the Munich Agreement and the subsequent Anglo-German Declaration."
Chamberlain made an agreement with Hitler for Germany to stop its aggression and gobbling up other countries. Hitler conned Chamberlain and invaded Poland. Before Chamberlain arrived Hitler told his staff, he had no intention of honoring any agreement he would make with the British.
If the western world doesn't stop Putin in Ukraine, he will try to gobble up more countries. I think Putin is just as crazy as Hitler and just as brutal.
Biden needs to pressure the western European countries to spend their fair share helping Ukraine. However, I don't think the ever senile Joe has the backbone to do so. Also Ukraine is infamous for its corruption and I wonder how much of our money is going into Swiss accounts.
There are no easy answers to complex problems. If anyone believes there are easy answers, they are either stupid or a politician but then I repeat myself (Mark Twain).
The money is going to military and humanitarian supplies we purchase and send to Ukraine, so unless there is a massive resale operation in Kiev, there is little chance anyone there is making a profit. I also think the talk about Ukrainian corruption is a red herring used by both Russian and American propagandists to sway American public opinion. Regardless of whether there is corruption in high places in Ukraine, the Russians are attacking and brutalizing the masses of Ukrainians and destroying their country which to me is reason enough to send aid.
This statement in and of itself is either propaganda or incredibly naive. Very early in the conflict weaponry we provided was found for sale in Germany.
I wonder how much of it is going into the accounts of Americans. And while I suspect a con is at play now I don't think it is Putin doing the conning. And what exactly convinces you Putin will march across Europe a la Hitler? He had been in power decades now without doing so. I think it unlikely he would be able to control that tyrannical impulse that long.
"And what exactly convinces you Putin will march across Europe?" Putin is rattling the saber at Sweden, Poland and the Baltic States. He has said he wants to expand Russia's borders to that of old Imperial Russia.
I do too, Lonesome. But one upside (so far) is that Putin's aspirations have not been met by his military's capabilities. With perhaps one hundred thousand soldiers dead, more wounded and with horrible logistics and leadership, Russia's army doesn't command the same respect it did a year ago. I doubt Putin can take on Finland in a fair fight (without tactical nukes).
Oh, I forgot to tell you, here's a hint that will help you in the future not to embarrass yourself by being ignorant. Now I don't want you to gasp in surprise when I give you this enlightening hint. This has been around for a long time. There are things on the internet called s e a r c h engines. I know it will be hard for you to believe but these engines can be used to enlighten ignoramuses like yourself and to find almost any information you are looking for and will make you look like you know what you are talking about.
I suggest you use these engines so people won't look at you like you're a left wing, moron, dumbass. You can thank me later, right after you apologize for insulting me.
"Equally worrying is that Putin’s Feb. 21 speech referred quite explicitly to restoring not the Soviet Union, which he criticized in various ways, but the Russian empire as it existed prior to 1917."
I read a lot. You should try it sometime. It will keep you abreast of world affairs and keep you from making a ass of yourself. Who is the lazy one now?
After reading these hot links maybe it's hard core left wing nut cases like you who is a lazy ignoramus. I think you owe me an apology. I think these web sites prove your pal Putin is rattling the saber just like I said.
Oh please. You probably think Charlie Wilson did the world a service. It may not be that simple. You are old enough to know that. And even if you buy his talk, he doesn't just have nuclear arms, he has a stockpile. Is this a bear that should be poked? Especially poked by a fool?
Lynne, you sound just like the left wing nuts. They tell me all the time what I think. I find it insulting. You like the left have no idea what I think.
Putin like Hitler is a mad man so when a sociopath tell me something, I believe him.
I reread my comment. I was not telling you what to think I was disagreeing with your comment. No insult intended. I think emotions are running high on thos topic. I know mine are. And as to the mad-man comment I reiterate it is not that simple.
Putin has shown very strong strategic skills, but there is a lack of military skill to back his plans for bringing back the empire. Hitler continually ignored sound military advice and relied on his judgement...Putin may be demonstrating the same fatal flaw.
Biden showing up in Ukraine invites Xi Jinping visiting Putin. It was an extremely stupid move since the US at this time is not prepared to fight. Supplying military jets with parts by going to the air museum is not prepared! Not being able to recruit enough soldiers, sailors, marines, etc. is not prepared. To provoke a fight when there is nothing to fight with is lunacy. Biden demonstrates the corruption of Douglas MacArthur rather than the wisdom and foresight of George Marshall.
Also all the claims about Europe overflowing with money ignores the reality that vegetables are being rationed in the UK and heat is severely limited in France, Germany, etc. These countries are also overextended and indebt.
Respectfully disagree that Biden landing in Ukraine invites Xi to do the same in Moscow. Xi would never show his hand so blatantly. He's canny and wants to back a winner. Russia, so far, is not that.
Agree, Xi will evaluate very carefully and he follows a very careful policy of not putting "all the cards on the table" Biden's visit does allow for such a counter move, but that is more a checker game move than Xi's chess game moves.
So many countries have mortgaged their future and their kids futures on the woke agenda and the scam of green energy they have nothing to pay with. Same as us and Brandon, just take out another credit card.
Not to mention, the biggest issue with woke leadership is they are also cowards. They will let others die, but they lack the courage to really enforce policies to stop aggressiveness. Add in maybe the most corrupt and useless agency ever, the UN and there you have it. Half ass leadership trying to play both sides. But it’s only the little folks who die and suffer. Hey, whose up for Davos?
We need to dump the UN. It is a useless, corrupt organization. Like the idiots we are, we give millions in foreign aid to countries regularly vote against us in the UN and we like idiots keep giving these pest hole countries millions.
We need to stop foreign aid and move the UN to France. The French hate us and think the UN is the best thing since hot sliced bread.
Throw the humanitarian aspects aside and consider the pure, utilitarian financial concerns. Consider the cost the US spent to fight WWII (again, just the financial cost - ignore the human cost). Adjusted for current inflation, we spent over 4 trillion dollars to fight WWII. Vietnam is over 1 trillion. Same for the Korean War. Iraq: about 1 trillion.
Assuming the goal is to defeat Russia in a significant way, 68 billion is an incredibly good ROI versus all of the other ways we've tried (and failed) to do it so far.
You might say, "we should have never fought any of those wars either." That may be true, but it's not relevant. We *did*. If the intent is to stop Russian aggression and create a world in Eastern Europe even more favorable to US interests, even 100 billion is a cheap marketing campaign.
I was responding to the original assertion that Europe should be paying for it. The humanitarian aspects were already cast aside. I'm saying that if you are going to ignore the humanitarian aspects, then we're not actually talking about all that much *actual money*, as compared to (for example) SDI.
I'm not even arguing that Europe shouldn't be paying for it. I'm arguing that the bill isn't very high considering our baseline military expenditures that have been, historically, far less effective in defeating Russians.
EDIT:
To clarify, lets say you take a metric like "Russian Tanks Destroyed Per Dollar". The 68 billion or whatever we've actually sent to Ukraine has had a much better ROI than the roughly 6 trillion we spent since 1945 and destroyed effectively zero Russian tanks.
Nuclear war was on the table the second Russian troops crossed into Ukrainian land. And in my estimation is just as unlikely as that first day. I might be wrong, but I haven't seen many serious people talking about a real nuclear threat. We're just not at that level (yet). The wildcard is if Putin is actually mentally incompetent as some people are claiming; I've never met him, so I can't say.
It is most definitely our problem. We don't live in a vacuum. If Europe falls into Russian hands, we'll have less influence, and thus can be affectively shunned from more resources, more exports.
I’m gonna be honest. I literally cackled when I read
“If Europe falls into Russian hands…..”
😂😂😂
Regardless, whatever argument you make for this being our problem because of tertiary downstream etc etc, that is an argument for Europe paying for all of this because it is much more their problem than ours.
Okay so my argument is that they should pay for 100% of it because it is their problem. And then you come in with “They are ALSO paying for it.” with ‘also’ in all caps because they are paying for 4% of it?
Do you even understand how fundamentally immoral deceptive manipulative and dishonest that is? Maybe you don’t.
F**k you, you dishonest dickweed. We have been providing a defense umbrella for the parasitic effete whores in Europe for 80 years.
They have free healthcare because we give them free national defense. Everyone in Europe can absolutely blow themself. Time to man up, pussies. Pay for your own shit and defend your own country for once in your life, you useless non-contributing cocksuckers.
Tell me how you really feel 😂😂 (but yes, they should pay for their own crap, if for no other reason we can stop hearing the “we have free healthcare and we’re better than you” trope)
This angers me to no end. They do not have free healthcare. The EU does not have healthcare. Each individual nation state has healthcare. Which is what the US should have. Each state. Healthcare.
Actually Bruce, I think the disparaging and mocking is being done by Kevin today. He's in fine form, especially his post below..I can almost see the smile on his face from here..
I have a sneaky suspicion he really agrees with the comments of the people he hurls insults at. But can't openly admit it.
They should mock us. We are fools. But the real irony is the mockery about our Wild West mentality and OMG thr guns!!!! While they have their greedy paws out for GUNS.
Umm.... If Ukraine were not receiving a steady stream of weapons from the West you can be damn sure Putin would have overrun it and be on to his next country or two by now.
So what if the Russians take over Europe (a bit of science fiction and fantasy, but let’s roll with it)?
It will result in a restoration of traditional values like Christianity, marriage, real men, a strong military, pride in history and culture. What’s not to love?
Looks like you have some rosy picture of Russia. How about people sent to 10+ years to penal colonies in Siberia because they dare to call the war a war? People being raped (including men), beaten, and tortured to death by police who come to arrest them because they are deemed to be disloyal to the regime? Or because they participated in a protest? Or just happened to be walking next to a protest? Is that the kind of a country you'd want to live in? I'll pass thank you, traditional values or not.
Regarding traditional values: it's all just posturing. Putin had a number of mistresses and children born outside of marriage, this is a very well known fact. Almost everyone among the top Russian politicians has 2-3 families (one legal one and a few more on the side).
We have no influence now. We have money and have demonstrated remarkable foolhardiness therewith. We are like the idiot rich kid who thinks you can buy friends in the hood.
Long before the invasion there was the sane American viewpoint, and an actual treaty agreement with the Russian's, that because of its proximity to the Russian border, Ukraine should be neutral and free of NATO arms. It was a reality based decision predicated on the fact that historically the region was used to launch major invasion's of Russia on two separate occasion's. And, a large part of the region speak's and is of Russian ancestry. We all watched what happened happen.
(As a note, the ongoing campaign to erase, sever and separate American citizen's from a living sense of their own historical dignity and agency make's it easier to manipulate the international stage. I like this line from the movie VENGEANCE: "If everything means everything then nothing means anything." The message. You have no history, so history has no consequence, so history does not exist, and reality is what the State and criminal finance says it is. Orwell, Huxley et al.)
It is interesting that Burisma operate's in Ukraine but the actual company is located in Cyprus. Cyprus is noted for its non-extradition law's and being a last stop hideout for international grifter's. Our current Presidency, and most likely the Ukrainian horror, is the result of the DNC/surveillance state/MSM lap top cover-up. The Ukraine has long been a money laundering center for oligarch's and cartel's. Was/is Biden hip deep? NATO, as reported by the GRAY ZONE, at the recent Davos criminal clatch, along with BlackRock, is pushing a "must win" because Ukraine is to be the future model of financial totalitarianism. All digital currency and total surveillance. Last year's assault on Holland's farmer's was implemented because the Davos boys want to build a "city of the future" there as well. The Zelensky family, if you believe Mark and Aaron is receiving billion's in loan's (his wife was at Davos) and guarantee's from the IMF/WEF/CCP crowd. Likewise, a string of assassination's of Ukrainian leader's open to compromise and negotiation for a peace settlement. There's no money in peace. Didn't Boris Johnson block peace negotiation's early on?
You mean no more to the DNC/CCP/Davos/Wall Street perp's looting the American treasury than the poor Ukrainian people pictured in today's article. Like them you and your life can be discarded at will. Starting with East Palestine you don't have enough finger's and toe's to count the instance's of betrayal. Recent Taibbi Twitter report's have uncovered evidence that the DNC/surveillance state is already creating categories and making list's of citizen's for an eventuality they fully plan to implement.---It's simple. Some grifter's rigged the Monopoly Game, looted the board and in the process destroyed the game. Your life and future is scattered on the floor with the little dog, the thimble, the dice and the sport's car but the "get out of jail free card" is missing (ask Julian and Edward). There is no game. There's YOU, there's the Constitution and the Republic. Stand or perish.
Leadership requires us to lead, as no nation in The EU has the ability to respond to such an immediate threat at scale. Still, I agree with you Kevin. Europe’s GDP and population are roughly equivalent to ours. This is a very opportune time for NATO to develop a strategy that shifts a far more significant burden of Europe’s defense back to Europe. We defended, then rebuilt Europe after WW II, and they are still getting a free ride from us regarding their own defense.
It's a deal. This is less than $200 per person in the US. I'd gladly pay that and more. It sure beats wasting money on Social Security, welfare, farm subsidies, protectionist nonsense, Medicare, etc.
You're not paying for any of it (except through the inflation money printing causes). Your kids and grandkids, however, will see the bill come due one day. This is all borrowed money.
The a specific term for this: “wagging the dog,” famously done by Clinton bombing Iraq during the Lewinsky scandal. Same thing here. Big problem, incompetent response, let’s try to distract the voters by a grand international gesture. But keep Buttigieg in office so we don’t lose that support. No one knows anything or cares about Ohio anyway.
I was in the Ukraine about 3 years ago. I rode on the train pictured (or at least painted the same way). Ride from Lviv to Ternopil to visit my daughter while she was working in a home for disabled people. Both those cities were beautiful and I’m sure today they are in ruins.
This war was instigated by the US to trap Russia into fighting AND for the US and NATO to impose sanctions against them.
The US is now sending Ukraine money to “help save democracy”. What a load of BS!!!
My heart goes out to the Ukrainian people because they were used as pawns and now their beautiful country and very beautiful people are in ruins.
The US is sending tax payer money as a sign a Virtue Signaling”.
And Zelenskyy keeps convincing dumb ass leaders like mine in Canada to send more money.
It’s a dam shame. Ukraine is now the new Afghanistan. Soon the US will start a war in the South China Sea and only then will they leave Ukraine. They will shout: We must go save democracy in China !!!!!
Best comment here Sylvian. People don't read and pay attention to the right, credible sources, so they don't see it. It's been increasingly obvious since 2014 that the goal has been to goad Russia into a conflict, to allow the West to retaliate and weaken their regime's influence. Which has mostly been a benign influence that helped greater Europe.
It's like watching the Star Wars prequels and not realizing that Palpatine had his hand on the scale the whole time.
Thank you Perry. I read alot of the info that Richard Maybury (from Early Warning Report). He give the whole picture from both sides to his subscribers. He’s awesome.
And, I loved George Orwell’s books (Animal Farm and 1982).
Animal farm is the funny dam book I’ve ever read (when looking at it through politics).
1982 is just crazy stuff. The stuff was written in the 1940’s or something like that and George explained well what exactly is going on right now with the media. They change from one bad news to another in order to distract the people from the truth.
Unfortunately, up here in Canada, our government is running a Bill called C10 where it will allow “them” to decide what the “general public” to read. They claim this will protect us. The sad thing is that most people don’t know or understand the C10 thing so they just ignore it. It’s really sad.
“On top of that, there are the tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians who have been killed. That includes at least 400 children. Russian troops have raped and tortured countless Ukrainians.”
——————————————————
On day one I said we should give Putin the Donbas region and turn eastern Europe into a weapons depot to establish deterrence.
We chose not to do that, because Jake Sullivan and Susan Rice and Chuck Todd and a bunch of other total f***ing morons knew better, and the above listed atrocities happened. And Ukraine is now in ashes. Good job, simpletons.
Glory to Ukraine……..but first we have to burn the entire country to the ground………but glory to Ukraine.
Has anyone here been to Russia? It’s nice. You can’t criticize the government and they have great hotels. Putin is a bad guy but it is not North Korea.
Putin controlling the Donbas region as opposed to Saddamyr Husseinskyy controlling the Donbas region represents a 0.00% change in quality of life for the people who live in the Donbas region.
When you elect a feckless corrupt child molesting coward, and deterrence fails, the best option is NOT to get into a slap fight with an insane person who has nukes.
I agree thta European can pay, but they do pay. So it is not that the US is alone in paying.
As to Russia being a nice country, that is a verynaïve remark? Nobody doubts that Russians are nice people when you let them be nice. If you send tem in a foreigne country by justifying what clearly is an invasion and an attempt of annexation, they become whatr the Red Army has always been : a brutalk machinery ifor which human life does not count and the soldiers of which are free to torutre and rape at will. That is the other reality of Russia. And Putin certainly is not a nice man. He takes himself for another Peter the Great or Catherine the great, and he is actually working (has been working ever since he came to power) for the reconstitutionof the Soviet empire. Proof: his interventionin the Northern Caucasus, in Georgia, his threats to Moldavia (his next target). And to give one last teling image: we were all against the French trying to keep Algerai French to protect tha French settlers in Algeria. We calles the Algerian war a just war of decolonization. That is exactly what the Ukrainian warb is: a war against a coonizing pos=wer (Russia) which considers Ukraine as one of its colonies that it "rightfully" owns. So for =get about Rissia being fine and Putin a nice man,. Leave Russia out, they don'yt have the possibility to spoeak up any way or the other, because Putin's totalitarian regime won't give the a voice.
C'mon guys. Not everybody is a native English speaker, and this blog reaches the whole world. I just about guarantee that Mssr. Friedberg speaks better English than any of us speaks his language.
I simply typed as it went, and failed to reread my text to correct it. My mistake, but it may happen to all of us, especially when one has to react to what one sees as outlandish comments. The lesson is well taken. tough. I shall always check my comments for errors, so that my texts will be readable without having strokes or fits or anything of that sort.
Western leaders are among the most depraved, warmongering, arrogant and satanic, and stupid, on the planet. They brook no dissent from their neoliberal, WEF, godless agendas. They believe they are ultimately spotless in fault and that their progressive revolutionist mindset is and MUST be the future.
Russia and China, for their many faults and problems, just aren't taking that road. I'm no Putin scholar, but our leaders are so disgusting that I find it unlikely he's as bad as they are.
I just don't undertsand from where you take the information. I am Austrian, I have seen russian soldiers from very close between 1948 and 1962, I have seen and lived through tye Russian invasion of Hungary while in Vienna, and the invasion of tchochoslovakia In 1968. those were not nice things, but colonial wars toi reestablish a contested communistregime. nothing nice about it. You should read up some of Russian history and east europrean history.
I agree with Kevin. The war in Ukraine was created by the U.S. government & NATO, and the U.S. government & NATO can end the war today. TFP should publish a companion piece about THAT story.
Nice pro-US Empire propaganda piece here. I'm sure it will have its intended effect of strengthening the resolve of many war hawks to never ever negotiate a peace to end this tragic war, because "Putin is Hitler and we don't negotiate with terrorists, USA good Russia bad, freedom and democracy, rules-based order, blah blah blah". Enjoy the wonderful world of kindergarten.
Yes, the president that won an election because intelligence services lied about his criminal record then goes to the country where he has corrupt relationships, floods his partners in crime with money, and declares that "democracy stands".
These are heartbreaking pictures, but they remind me of what my Ranger friend once told me, "Baghdad was a beautiful city until we blew it all to hell."
Mine are not anti-Ukraine. To the contrary mine are anti-proxy war and the harm that this one has visited on the people of Ukraine. I think those poor people have been used as pawns for decades at least, maybe forever.
My dance instructor was on the front lines of the invasion. I once wore a shirt I'd picked up in Morocco to the dance and he said, "I killed a lot of people wearing those."
I'm taking his word over yours, sorry. But don't listen to me, my perspective if different from yours so I must be a PutinBot, like the ones that got Trump elected!
Btw, nothing about any of my comments is "anti-Ukraine".
Most people who've seen real combat and have had to kill on the battlefield don't speak about it so glibly. The veterans I know who saw real combat would never speak that way about having killed people.
I know, right? Patrizia seems to be the very first person to actually engage the content of this article. All the rest has been back on forth on whether we should or shouldn't be helping them try to be free. Man, France bankrupted itself - literally - trying to help the U.S. be free once. Then taxed their way into a bloody revolution trying to climb out of it.
We can all cheer for the bravery and resolve of Ukrainians. And weep for the savagery and needless deaths, especially of the innocents. And curse Putin for this invasion.
But let's not lose sight of the fact that former Israeli PM Bennett has credibly asserted that the Biden Cabal - especially the odious Victoria Nuland - scuttled the peace talks that might have ended this madness. And then blew up the Nordstream Pipeline and lied about it, creating the worst environmental disaster of recent memory. Continuing to dribble arms into this conflict - instead of working to end it - is not "defending democracy." It is dangerous and cruel. Maybe there isn't a way out but cheering on this madness isn't what sane and sober leaders do. Is there irony in Democrats waving Ukrainian flags but cursing ours? Defending Ukraine's border while abandoning ours. In vowing to run if America were invaded but exalting in Ukraine's fight for its homeland? Or caring about Ukrainian suffering but mocking the residents of East Palestine OH? Just wondering.
Let’s also not forget that Biden literally invited the Russians to invade Ukraine, and strengthened their position by cutting US oil and gas exploration as much as he could, banning development on federal lands, canceling the Canadian tar sands, pipeline, and so forth.
This is what happens when an idiot is at the helm, elected by idiots.
Increasingly, I agree with De Tocqueville who argued that mob democracy will be our doom.
There is an essay/interview out on Unherd right now with Fiona Hill in which she is questioned about the pipeline incidents and says in spite of the circumstantial evidence, she doesn't think the U.S. did it. She thinks the Ukraine did, but doesn't know how. Doesn't prove anything, but the discussion is interesting. Here's their blurb about who she is if you don't know her:
"Few people better understand the West’s fraught relationship with Russia than Fiona Hill. Born in Bishop Auckland, she went on to study History and Russian at St Andrews before a scholarship at Harvard took her to America. From there, Hill rose rapidly through the ranks to become one of the world’s foremost experts on Putin’s Russia, brought into the administrations of George W. Bush, Barack Obama and, finally, Donald Trump."
Oh I remember her from the impeachment silliness. She appeared to have the same, unwarranted intellectual conceit of all the State Department flacks and dullards in the room.
It is no wonder that the world hates the United States. We are by far the most powerful nation; we spend more on our military than all other countries combined - including China and Russia, yet our government has not for decades used that power thoughtfully, wisely, or sparingly. We use it to meddle in the affairs of nations everywhere. As much as I love America, we are rightly perceived by the world as bullies.
And why is this? It is not because the people want it; those we elect to power want it; those vastly more powerful than them in the unelected Permanent Deep State want it; the Military-Industrial Complex that Eisenhower warned us about wants it. Have no doubt: the public is no longer remotely in control of its government or the elites who in turn control IT. And as Tom Sowell has said, there is no more dangerous or stupid way to make decisions than to put them in the hands of those who bear no penalty for being wrong.
A YouTube video by professor John Mearsheimer seven years ago, "Why is Ukraine the West's Fault?"
explains the "Ukraine question" perfectly. Russia, whose economy is 1/14 that of the United States, was never going to allow a NATO ally on its border, and Putin said so unequivocally. Given the US' size and hostility toward Russia - and its history of "regime change" politics, he would be out of his mind to allow the enemy to perch against his back. Yes, Putin's a horse's ass, but what did you expect him to do? And of course the US Government - who wouldn't spend $5B USD to protect its own border has now spent over $100B "protecting" that of a country most Americans can't find on a map. And why would the thoroughly corrupt Alleged President* administration do such things? I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.
Mearsheimer is possibly right, but I remember him as the scum who wrote a treatise a few years ago about how the “Israel lobby” controls the U.S.
Given that the Israelis are basically the only ones who have tried to maintain neutrality and mediate a peaceful settlement in Ukraine, I wonder if he still thinks they’re evil incarnate.
I don’t think the politicians are in control either. It is the administrative state and the security state, the politicians come and go. Remember how angry Vindaman(a LTCOL!!!!) was that THE PRESIDENT didn’t agree with him and the rest of the admin state!!?? How dare he!!!
As a counterpoint to the Mearsheimer argument, suggest listening to podcasts of interviews of Steven Kotkin. He’s a historian, wrote the three volume biography of Stalin. He thinks Ukraine has the right as a sovereign country to decide for itself whether to join NATO or not. But he also worries about America’s involvement at the expense of our military stocks.
It was the Bucharest deal, the USA along with Russia and Ukraine made a deal. Ukraine gave up all atomics based in its country in exchange for vague guarantees of territorial integrity.
Your statement really doesn’t make sense. Give up nukes in exchange for not joining NATO is a lose-lose condition. I just read the Wikipedia on Budapest Memorandum and Ukraine NATO relations and did not see anything about a treaty that told Ukraine to give up nukes in exchange for assurances it wouldn’t join NATO. Ukraine gave up nukes so it wouldn’t get sanctioned by the West, and in exchange for security assurances by Russia, US, Britain. And that none of these powers would interfere militarily or economically in Ukraine. You’re welcome to fact check me.
This is BS. Ukraine was not under threat of sanctions for nukes because nukes sere grandfathered into Ukraine when USSR gave up the ghost. What are you smoking?!
US/UK took advantage that Ukraine was in shambles economically and made them give up the nukes because that's always been the strategic goal of the West. US, UK and Russia sign security guarantees to Ukraine and recognized Ukrainian borders as of 1991.
Lose-lose for who? But otherwise that is my understanding as well. NATO did not want a non-member with nukes. Russia did not want NATO to control the Ukraine. No treaty, just "assurances". Obama's involvement in the Maidan revolution/coup bears scrutiny in all this. As does all that Burisma money.
Russia was a non-member of NATO with nukes, you twat. Russia that has hated you for DECADES! Hate of the United States has been drilled into into us with mother's milk. Billboards, movies, songs, poems. In 9th and 10th grade they would separate girls and boys for military preparedness classes. The scenario that they would make us practice is that Americans dropped a bomb on Soviet Union and invaded. Boys would practice shooting. Girls were trained in triage for battlefield trauma - concussion diagnostic, applying tourniquets, injections, setting broken bones.
You think Russia is conservative? By your definition, so was Soviet Union. nuclear family (which is considered an essential building block of a communist society) and gay people in jails. And no guns, under any circumstances, no guns
Part of me doesn't give a shit if people like you know or understand. I can always leave America. You can't. Russia hates you with a searing passion born of jealousy, thwarted ambition and chauvinism – and you don't even understand it, you stupid, stupid sheep.
Other than your vile language, so what? I am not pro-Russian. Nor I blinded by hatred thereof as that is a fool's mission and can have devastating consequences, intended or otherwise. I note that you still refer to Russia as "us". Telling, very telling.
Sure. Understood. But to some extent Ukraine's "right" reminds me of a discussion I had with my chief tech about the Mike Tyson rape case. A "beauty queen" had invited Tyson to her room at 1 a.m. after he had spent the day profanely bantering with the contestants, later having him arrested for rape. My take was that if you invite an alligator into your bed and the alligator bites you, is it 100% the alligator's fault?
Her response was, "You always have the right to say no - even at the last second."
Mine? "Yes, you always have the right. You just may not have the ability."
Why is the US taxpayer responsible for this? Why? Why can't our tax dollars be used to benefit us? Just once?
The money isn't helping anyway, it's hurting. Every dime we send to this madness just fuels it. It's an ancient border dispute. And it would have been resolved long ago if we hadn't put fuel on the fire.
Insanity. Absolute insanity.
Yet, somehow, Biden the Incoherent has a 40% approval rating. Maybe we have the leaders we deserve...
Why can't our tax dollars be used to benefit us? Just once?
We are $31 trillion in debt and rising. It would be bad enough if it were our "tax dollars." But these nitwits are spending money and leaving the IOU for our children and grandchildren.
Our leaders are afraid off what will happen if Putin achieves his dream of rebuilding the Soviet Union. That’s why they see this spending as a benefit to the American people. Whether they are right or wrong I don’t know but I think it is a mistake to reflexively oppose spending on foreign aid. America isn’t an island after all.
Somewhere between "American isn't an island" and "the American taxpayers paying $4 TRILLION for foreign misadventures in the last couple decades" is a place called sanity. Especially when none of those misadventures have made the world either a better or safer place. Quite the opposite. We completely destabilized the entire Middle East. Now we are destabilizing Eastern Europe.
I could handle it if we'd spent $4 billion. But $4 TRILLION? When our infrastructure is literally in catastrophic condition. Have you, by any chance, seen the trains in Asia? or Europe, for that matter? Have you seen the roads in Singapore??? Have you been to our international airports lately...and compared it to Hong Kong's airport?
The long-suffering American Middle Class have been footing the bill for the world's defense long enough. Not only are we NOT appreciated for being everyone's "free" police force; we are despised for it.
While I feel for these people, I care for America more. It’s like we, or at least Joey, have so much invested in ukraine, the US doesn’t register. The southern border? Meh, not important we are being invaded with young military aged men run by the cartels. East Palestine OH? Meh. More important to focus on white construction workers than an environmental disaster.
Ukraine needs to end. Russia may retain Crimea and the Donbas. I don’t really care. We should not be fighting this to the last Ukrainian and the last American taxpayer dollar. Enough.
First of all. I do think pursuing the domino theory was the right move. Secondly, this is slightly different. This is military driven (with the silly excuse of - there are some Russians there). It is more akin to Hitler waltzing into Czechoslovakia.
I have a book on my shelf of unread books titled, "This Time It's Different". It's about economic myopia but I expect the psychological principal is the same.
One can’t help but feel sympathy for the people of Ukraine, and I do, but part of me wonders why this war began in the first place and why it is still raging after a year.
When Israel invaded Lebanon in 2006, after 4 soldiers were abducted from a border station and killed, the U.S. rushed to halt the fighting as quickly as possible. Condoleeza Rice forced the Israelis to a truce just as they were on the cusp of defeating the Hezbollah war machine once and for all. The correct policy would have been to destroy Hezbollah, which has now completely rebuilt and is ready for a rematch.
Similarly, after the despicable bombing of a Passover service in Israel which killed over 20 people, an enraged Israel rolled into Jenin and went house to house, killing militants. They blew holes in walls to move to the next building quickly and safely, a tour de force of urban warfare. In this case, as well, the U.S. stupidly pushed Israel to back out before it could finish the job.
The U.S. abhors violence, except when it serves our needs. No one tried to negotiate a halt to the Iran-Iraq war, a scarcely mentioned conflict that raged during the entire Reagan era, 1980-88, causing over a million deaths (some estimates are double that) including tens of thousands of Iranian child soldiers killed.
Setting aside the righteousness and legality of self-defense, which no one would dispute, war is a terrible thing that should be the last choice after all other bad choices have been tried. A consistent U.S. foreign policy should always be to find a peaceful solution, even if it means territorial concessions and humiliating outcomes for one or both sides. Certainly this approach is applied consistently in the Israeli context.
But not Ukraine. No, we want Ukraine to burn. Make the Russians pay dearly. Degrade their military and destroy their economy, and then at last they will no longer be a threat. Clearly, this is what the United States wants; Biden even said it himself—he would not mind a minor incursion into Ukraine. Incredibly, few mainstream new organizations ever mention this or question what we are doing.
A more foolish plan could hardly be imagined. One year later, a couple hundred thousand people killed, and the war still rages, inconclusive and apparently bound to continue until one side or the other is destroyed. China is propping up Russia, we continue to support the Chinese economy and military buildup, even as we empty our military stockpiles and pour billions of dollars into keeping Ukraine afloat.
Would it not have been better to negotiate a settlement a year ago? Give the Russians Crimea and Donbas and a neutrality pledge by Ukraine, in exchange for demilitarization of the border and restoration of discounted oil and gas shipments. Maybe I’m wrong… I welcome an explanation of why it was necessary for all those people to die.
It's not about Crimea and Donbass, just as it's not about Israeli settlements in the Middle East. Putin doesn't consider Ukraine to be a legitimate country, just as Palestinian Arabs feel about Israel. The main difference between the two situations is that Israel is militarily stronger than its enemy, while Ukraine is not.
Actually, the Arabs don't want to subjugate and annex Israel. They want to wipe the Jews out, drive them into the sea, and take the land.
To my knowledge, the Russians don't want to wipe out the Ukrainians; they regard them as cousins and fellow Slavs who should be part of the Russian federation.
If the Russians don't want to wipe out Ukrainians, why do they booby-trap apartment stairwells and children's playgrounds with explosives when they retreat? Yes, they do that.
If Putin considers Ukrainians to be "cousins", why did he send in Chechen soldiers first? The Chechens are known for their brutality and not much else.
Putin wants the Black Sea, the fertile land and the natural resources. He doesn't give a damn about the people.
Because Putin wants to win and wanted to annex all of Ukraine by any means necessary. So give him Donbas and Crimea (which he had to begin with) and stop the madness.
But absent US actions in Ukraine since the fall of the USSR would he feel that way? IDK but I think it merits a look-see. And the lock-step to avoid it troubles me.
Sorry. This reads as propaganda. The casualty statistics read as propaganda. The pictures are staged like propaganda. Not saying there isnt a kernel of truth in any part of it. But overall, it is a propaganda piece. Lets read the same story from the Russian point of view. Oh wait. Thats all been censored by the government. Ukrainian Propaganda.
On a related point—- The FP still hasn’t covered the story of Biden blowing up the Nordstream pipeline. Have we heard how the Germans reacted to this? Were they warned? What has this done to their economy? Or are they playing along, playing dumb to protect Joe?
I don't agree with everything either but in my opinion the FP is much much better than the NYTIMES. I just cancelled my NYTIMES subscription - couldn't take it anymore. The NYTIMES highly censors its comment section which was the last straw for me. I haven't seen any censorship of the Free Press comment section - seems like a free and open discussion.
Today’s WSJ editorial mirrors my concerns about President Biden’s commitment to providing “everlasting support” to Ukraine. Again, Ukraine is demanding more powerful weapons from America, and although Biden says no, he’ll cave and slowly start to provide them with fighter jets and long-range missiles. The road we’re on feels like we’re slowly headed toward war.
Russia, China, and Iran have formed an alliance (Axis) against America and the West. The war in Ukraine is only the beginning of future conflicts between the Axis and America. This will become a battle for world-order.
I agree. I also think that if we let go, this will be seen as a sign that china has the goahead to take over Taiwan. And people are still forgetting that most of your wheat comes from Ukraine/ Russia and most of the chips from Taiwan + Chaina. They can bend your knee pretty easily if they take over Taiwan
Taiwan is Chinese; it’s an island 100 miles off China's coast, and China will never allow it to be an independent country. It’s only a matter of time before China take over control. For America to say we will defend Taiwan is foolish. I agree with you about our dependence on Taiwan for chips, which means the only long-term solution is to produce the chips here in the USA.
What?!? Actually manufacture stuff in the US? What an idea! Not sure our consumerism at all costs society can handle the real work of having to manufacture a product. Will they be allowed to take their fancy Starbucks drinks onto the assembly line? 🤣
I think you're mildly joking, but to take your comment as a serious question, no, probably not too many locals will not want to work in factories, even if they pay pretty good wages like $25/hour + benefits. Americans don't have that kind of work ethic anymore. The people in these factories, if they are ever built, will be foreign born, and will appreciate the opportunity to work hard for good money and support their families.
Actually this is pretty much how it was 100+ years ago, when millions of Europeans came in to work in the big factories, meat processing plants, garment districts, and mills around New York City, Chicago, etc. They worked 12+ hrs/day, 6-7 days a week, for pennies, under often miserable conditions, and really built this country. I don't advocate a repeat of this, but we do need people like that to drive our industries forward. We're not going to get there with the Starbucks generation!
Sorry, read some history on Taiwan. Even Wikipedia. It's racially and ethnically completely different. And China has only in the last hundred or so years had any interest and laid any claim on it - largely because the old Kuomintang Nationalist government went into exile there. The Japanese claimed it for awhile and China didn't care. When the Japanese left China didn't even want it. I used to work with a older Taiwanese scientist who talked about it a great deal. Genetically, the Taiwanese are actually closer to the Vietnamese than the Chinese. Even closer to the Koreans than the Chinese. Proximity does not imply ownership. Ask Canada and Mexico which are both 0 miles from the U.S. Or Vietnam.
China talks louder than it acts. It is perfectly happy with the status quo; Taiwan invests in the mainland, avoids declaring independence, and everyone’s happy. All this sabre rattling is just to satisfy internal nationalist factions.
“The United States, in 2022, funneled at least $68 billion to the Ukrainians in the form of military hardware and humanitarian aid”
————————————————-
No matter what your position is, we need to be able to agree that it is absolutely insane for the United States to be paying for any of this.
Europe has money. Allow me to repeat that for emphasis. EUROPE HAS MONEY.
Sell them all the weapons you want. Sell them the fighter jets. Sell them nukes. Let them pay us to train their guys if necessary. Whatever. Don’t care.
But this is THEIR PROBLEM. They can f***ing pay for it.
Kevin, we are depleting our stocks of weapons for Ukraine and we have no facilities to remanufacture them fast enough. And China is watching and waiting. Even if Europe paid us for all the stuff we are sending over, we would still be making ourselves less and less protected.
It was in the 2012 presidential debate that Obama mocked Romney for saying that Russia was a threat, he told Romney that was so last century. So what happened? Russia has become the bogeyman for democrats, cover for all the bad things they are doing themselves. And deflecting our attention from China.
Deflecting our attention away from all the MONEY our leaders are pocketing from China.
Especially the Biden crime family. Biden may be stupid and senile, which he is, but he loves that Chinese cash.
Not that senile LP!
Democrat administrations back to Clinton have been stirring this pot. I have a chilling suspicion about all that Burisma money and the Afghanistan withdrawal. Yet most just blindly refer to Putin's aggression. How about some nuance and context from "journalists"?
Don’t hold your breath, if one wants a different view point one has to get out of the echo chamber. There are lot of other sources where one can get information on what’s happening like eg the Epoch Times is fabulous.
I agree. The information is out there if one cares to look. Too many just lap from the mainstream media saucer.
Or the TDS box Lynne The President is not in the room and they still scream about him. It’s the distraction and the echo chamber it’s lethal.
I read a great piece from AL JAZEERA the other day going over the Ukraine war. It was well written and balanced. How is it that I get excellent journalism from AL JAZEERA??
I’m certain that blaming Trump’s win on Russian interference and all that ensued was setting the table and laying the groundwork for present Russian relations-especially the Dems and rinos
Brilliant comment today, we all appear to be able to see and understand what the Democrats are doing yet we remain powerless to do anything about it. We have to really push for reforms to our elections, to our $$$ etc, otherwise the deflecting of attention on China will soon become a reality, that we won’t have much left in our arsenal to ward them off.
Respectfully disagree, NC. I think a large reason (but not the only one) why we (the US) are acting aggressively in arming Ukraine and marshalling support from other democracies around the world in defence of that country is to signal to China not to get loose with the idea of an unprovoked attack on Taiwan. They need to know there's a line in the sand, somewhere. I think China has all of our attention, since at least 2016. And Trump, rightfully, was a part of that.
You're right about Romney, though. He was correct in that debate in 2012. If he was younger I would think he should run again for the WH. (Though I don't think he would get too much support on this thread..)
Lee, I'm not sure how depleting our military assets in Ukraine is a signal to China not to attack Taiwan. To me it is the opposite - depleting our resources in this manner sends a clear go-ahead signal.
In a possible scenario where we're facing off with China over Taiwan - to me it will be naval and air force assets the most important. We haven't sent any of those to Ukraine, not yet. Taiwan will not be a land battle..
Not rolling over signals not rolling over
No guarantee that means full support for Taiwan but it means something.
And a cynic would state that advanced militaries need to purge old ordinance periodically, May as we make use of it
Or, you can vote for the female version of Mitt. Nikki Haley.
Yes I can.
I think she can do something. Depends on where she points her ship..
I don't think Haley has what it takes. She's not tough enough and she is backstabbing Trump.
She's Romney in a dress.
Well said MC.
We are not going to run out of anything. Don't worry.
Liberals have zero issue with spending this much money. You have to see the comments on the WSJ. ON THE WSJ. One comment said at least no American has been killed. I couldn't believe the arrogance and ignorance.
Liberals have flooded the WSJ boards. Moreover, the WSJ is complicit by employing a squadron of leftist "moderators" who take down any post even mildly offensive to Biden. As least my post yesterday on the Biden photo with Ukrainian troops who looked like they smelled a noxious odor, remarking "America Depends on Joey" survived long enough to garner several laughs before being removed.
Bruce it's gotten ridiculously bad. It was ok when they went to a new comment system, the moderators had a hands off approach. Sometime last year the Hall Monitors descended and began censoring the conservatives. It's a joke. Luckily my $4/month online subscription is about as much as I am willing to pay. But I barely comment on that trash comment section anymore. The people here are more engaging and intelligent anyways.
Much more intelligent and engaging I think save your $4 cancel your sub by the end of the year you will have $48 dollars maybe you can buy a chocolate milkshake it’s much better than the WSJ
How the hell do you get it for $4/month?
Tell me about it. I threatened to cancel and they halved my $48/mo subscription. I guess we're dupes RBM.
Well, I've been at $20/mo for years. They have "whatever the market will bear" pricing model it seems.
Digital only. Not sure. I see these deals. This one was a cyber monday deal. Good for 1 year. I will cancel. If they run that deal next cyber monday I may do it again. That's all it's worth
I am seriously considering canceling my longstanding WAJ subscription. 30 years but the leftward slant of news and the Mods fascism is reducing its usefulness.
I don't blame you. There are still a couple good journalists - Kim Strassel. But that alone may not be enough. I've called and complained numerous times. They don't care.
Cancel!
Shocking that Putin hasn’t been killed. This is truly an example where cutting off the head of the snake would save countless lives and $$ billions.
True. But that kills the cash flow to American defense contractors. The plan is to see how many civilians and ordinary people on both sides can be killed while maximizing returns to the military-industrial complex. It’s a very old and tiresome story.
Exactly it’s a double edge sword!
Sorry, is Putin head of NATO? Seems like you are referring to the wrong snake.
Please explain
Biden bravely walked with the air raid sirens.
Maybe he didn't hear them...or know what they were? Dementia can be a powerful agent to fight through!
I have said this many times Biden doesn't know what planet he is on. This proves it:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/joe-biden-slammed-for-not-following-instructions-at-poland-event-dummy/ar-AA17MZo1?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8efb5e6e70a04887a561aba5b8753f4e
🤣🤣🤣🤣 seriously?
love!
Look at this gem I just read on the comments section-
"You can tell a lot about a country by who its friends are. We're edging closer to a world wide war, a war of murderous tyrants against democracy and the rule of law. We've been down this road before and many, some even holding positions of power in the Trumpublican party, are showing us they know nothing of history. "
They can't get Trump out of their minds.
Which boards? I have WSJ app on my phone but don’t see or participate in any boards??
You can't access the comments section from the phone app, only through their webpage. Another brilliant move by the WSJ /sarcasm
Ah, yes. Brilliant move indeed😵💫
IK tried the app initially but quickly trashed it. Too kludgy and as you write you can't post from it. Th back office staff at WSJ is horrid.
Where are all the peaceniks ? Where is peace now? Where are the left wing protesters who spit on American soldiers returning from viet Nam? When I was discharged in 1967 I was told not to wear my uniform when I got home.
Full blown war mongers now. Thank you got your service.
But arguably all Americans are put at risk by this.
I hope you are right on all accounts.
Except for RT’s puerile insults. RT makes some valid points at times, and then they skewer themselves with inanities.
You sound like the America Firsters of the 1930s who would have let Hitler and the NAZIs rampage across Europe, Russia, the Middle East and Africa rather than take action to support freedom and democracy. Appeasement didn't work then, and it won't stop Putin now. Trump and his coterie think they can play nice with that tyrant (and maybe make money off a deal for a Moscow hotel), if they sell out the Ukrainians and our NATO allies. They are fools, throwbacks to the America Firsters and the idea that we can build a wall of security around America by isolating ourselves from the troubles of the world.
Nice try. Under Obama, Putin grabbed off the Crimea, took the Dombass and shot down a civilian jet and got away scot free.
Under Trump, Ukraine was given javelins and other lethal armaments. No further acts against Ukraine.
Now under Biden, Ukraine is invaded, much of their country destroyed as Biden's cabal did nothing to stop the invasion and covertly instigated it.
And you blame Trump? That's not even a laughable argument.
Biden’s decision to allow Afghanistan to collapse for a few domestic political points was quit likely the reason Putin felt there would be little pushback when he invaded Ukraine. History is rife with examples of where incompetent leadership and decision making leads to greater tragedies.
I am now wondering if it was not done to clear the board for the Ukraine proxy war.
It’s not a proxy war. It’s Russian imperialism against a former member of the Soviet Union which is now a fledgling democracy.
It is absolutely a proxy war. With the MIC crossing lines as they salivate over it. Disgusting. Those people in those pics are paying the human price. Americans who still pay taxes are paying the monetary price.
Well said, Bruce. But as I stated to NCMaureen, when people are stuck in a time warp with Trump, facts and reason do not appear to get through no matter how much evidence is presented. It’s a sad, sad situation.
Just as an aside, It’s The Donbas.
Bruce Miller
I didn’t have time to come here yesterday and it’s just as well. The photos are horrific and Americans lying about the war against Ukraine and attacking people in the other party instead of attacking the villain are disturbing.
Biden is corrupt and cognitively impaired but neither he nor Nato nor Zelensky nor anyone in Ukraine, nor anyone else on earth or in Hell, not even Tucker Carlson, provoked Putin into engaging in this completely unjustified war on Ukraine.
And anyone who thinks attacks on sovereign nations isn't America’s business is short sighted.
As a conservative I am very disappointed by the demonstrable ignorance of some clueless people on the American right regarding this war. It is as black and white as anything I’ve seen in my 76 years. Tucker Carlson is an idiot. Every decent person cares.
Nothing is ever “black and white”. I’m surprised that in your 76 years you haven’t learned that.
It’s true there is no justification for what murderous Putin has done in Ukraine. There never will be.
However, as to provocation you should look back to 2014 and before. Do some reading about NATO encroachment perhaps. Even NPR and the Guardian have covered the subject, shockingly.
Being blind to enquiring why Putin acts as he does is intellectually vapid. And it doesn’t make facts go away or less of a reality. War is inherently propagandistic, it’s up to involved citizens to dig for truth.
So blanket implying people aren’t decent people who “care” because they question the media/government narrative is specious at best. It’s the default for those who wish to silence others.
What I’m surprised at is your lack of curiosity to get to the whole story and question both sides. Especially since, if I’m remembering correctly, you have a legal background.
Anonymous JAE.
Rape and murder are clearly black and white. Given that don’t know enough to know that I’m not surprised by the rest of your stupid comment. You incorrectly assume you know why I think what I do. I have questioned the Media narrative for 55 years. And even though I have issues with Trump I recognized that contrary to the Media narrative he was a very good POTUS and was maliciously maligned. I have been shunned by family members because I defended him.
Yes, I was one of a handful to get an A in evidence in law school and as a trial lawyer I separated the wheat from the chaff on a daily basis. Most people in life take the path of least resistance. Putin is an evil bastard. There is absolutely no justification for this invasion and his war crimes.
And there is no justification for your insulting others by calling them stupid. Hardly a demonstration of discernment, and lacking in any civility.
No idea why you feel the need to insert Trump into the conversation, some people obviously feel that need.
That said you didn’t say rape and murder were black and white, that was not your original premise. Nice try though.
I won’t engage with name callers, it’s never worth it. Have a good day.
I think all last three presidents had a terrible foreign affairs policy.
I agree. To borrow a phrase that Obama used, we seem to get the "JV's" (junior varsity) for our presidents.
And what did America do once it entered the war? It turned the country into a war material manufacturing machine. Is that happening now as we deplete our stocks and leave ourselves weakened? It will take over a decade to replace the stingers etc we have shipped over to Ukraine. If we started now. Do we have that kind of time?
Meanwhile, we have 100,000 Americans dying every years from fentanyl from Mexico. That is 2x the deaths of the entire Vietnam war. Each year. And the war mongering democrats do nothing.
And as of now the same number of deaths of Ukrainians that we’ve spent billions trying to prevent. Biden and his admin have no interest in protecting American borders and the safety of citizens. They don’t even make it part of their agenda! Biden chose Ukraine and Zelensky over our open borders and the residents of East Palestine…enough said. He’s ruined this country in ways democrats don’t even realize yet!
💯
The Democrats have a hard core leftist faction that applauds the deaths of “deplorables”.
Well said, NCMaureen. However, James McDermott is stuck in a time warp, as many are, when it comes to Trump. So I doubt he will listen to your reasoned argument.
You mean they won’t send them
Back. Lol
Trump unleashed American energy which helped keep oil at $40 per barrel crippling Russia and Iran. Biden and his globalists cut American energy which has enriched Russia.
Trump was the ideal, unpredictable Executive that kept the world safe. Learn some things.
“Trump and his coterie think they can play nice with that tyrant (and maybe make money off a deal for a Moscow hotel), if they sell out the Ukrainians and our NATO allies”
Funny thing is, Putin DIDN’T invade Ukraine when Trump was president. Putin’s first invasion began when a bunch of corrupt Ukrainian “little Putins” signed onto the coup engineered by Obama’s foreign policy geniuses back in 2014. Lo and behold their “success” precipitated Putin’s prompt annexation of Crimea. Once those same geniuses started running Biden’s foreign policy, what did Putin do? He invaded the whole freakin country. It’s not like Putin didn’t warn the Ukrainians and the US what was going to happen if the warmongering MIC parasites here kept insisting that Ukraine become a NATO member or drift into the EU orbit.
So, ask yourself why after 4 years of relative calm under Trump’s foreign policy Putin suddenly decided to invade Ukraine AGAIN. Is it a coincidence that it didn’t occur until the same crew who insisted on regime changes in Syria, Libya and Ukraine during the Obama administration became masters of the universe again? Again, if Putin was so dead set on taking Ukraine, why didn’t he invade when Trump was president? Maybe the answer is Trump had no interest in a country as corrupt as Ukraine. Certainly, he had no interest in obligating America to defend them or any other two-bit country as a NATO member. Nor did he have any interest in remaining NATO’s sugar daddy while deadbeats like the Germans we saw snickering https://youtu.be/FfJv9QYrlwg during Trumps prophetic UN speech, refused to pony up their club dues. Those were hardly views that would make Putin feel threatened.
Ironically, the man warmongering democrats and republicans smeared as a Russian stooge and impeached as a traitor somehow managed to keep relative peace in Ukraine. Now that Trump is gone, those same warmongers have in short order reduced Ukrainians to cannon fodder.
I remember all the talk during the Trump years of how he would get us into wars, OMG he's gonna have his finger on the nuclear button!, he will start WW3! Nothing of the sort happen. But with Biden we are closer to all of that. This is why I will never ever believe what the Democrats and the media spew, it's lies and it's their agenda-driven narrative.
Excellent lay out of events and facts.
Good for you, well thought out response that should brook no argument. But I’m sure they will try!
The Ukrainians that I know emphatically believe that the 2014 election was rigged by the Russians and that what followed wasn't a coup, but a popular revolt against it which caused the installed Russian stooge president to flee the country and new elections to be held. I don't think the military was involved at all. Isn't that a necessary part of a coup?
Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland was the mastermind behind the February 22, 2014 “regime change” which by any other name is a coup. I wouldn’t be surprised if the election of Yanukovych was rigged but with Ukraine being one of the most corrupt countries in Europe at the time who knows who was better at rigging elections. Regardless, he got elected and even agreed to early elections but was forced to flee to Russia when neo-Nazis and other ultra-nationalists overran government buildings. The rest is a rather sad and sordid tale that will likely get even uglier.
'Trump had no interest in a country as corrupt as Ukraine. Certainly, he had no interest in obligating America to defend them or any other two-bit country as a NATO member. Nor did he have any interest in remaining NATO’s sugar daddy..'
You ask why didn't Putin invade Ukraine while Trump was still in power, Timothy - but you've answered your own question. Putin well understood that in Trump's heart, no matter what Trump publicly said, he didn't want to fund NATO, he didn't want to defend Europe, he didn't give a rat's ass about the EU - therefore NATO was not a threat to Putin. Without American leadership Europe would stay compliant to Russia and NATO would remain neutered. Thus why invade?
You’re totally ignorant. Trump, who failed on many fronts and is not that smart, told Europe that they needed to cut their dependence on Russia and they literally laughed at him.
You, like a buffoon, think that the people who opposed Trump on this issue, who were proven to be simpleton dipshits, are smart.
I'm honored, Kevin! Thanks for responding!
Trump said that, yes. Big deal. We all saw years ago that Merkel was a fool. A grade 10 student could figure out that you don't put all your eggs in one basket. Even you could come up with that.
Trump wanted nothing to do with Europe. That was obvious.
Putin is bad we need to fight him.
That’s my analysis.
I’m a retarded 12-year-old.
No no no I appreciate this comment because what you are saying is a persuasive argument if you’re a retarded person.
You are basically a Holocaust denier if you compare 2020 Putin to Hitler. Maybe exploiting the Holocaust to scare people isn’t the exact same thing as Holocaust denial, but it is similar.
How about what happens when someone dares to protest this war we are in? That feels like Nazi Germany to me (gearing up to it). And I know. No one is getting arrested. Instead they are publicly castrated.
If it feels like Nazi Germany, you need only refer to Fat Herman's game book. Here it is:
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
So, naturally our friends on the left and their media handmaidens screech "Russian Puppet!" or "Putin Stooge" whenever one dares question this insanity.
Thank you Bruce.
Kevin, you are losing me. I generally agree with you more or less. But when you start calling people retarded you aren't winning any arguments. Its and admission you have no argument.
“You sound like the America Firsters of the 1930s”
You sound like the fools who said we had to get rid of Saddam Hussein and spread democracy across the Middle east
No kidding.
Good point TK.
TDS alert - It's amazing how people like you throw Trump into EVERY argument.
And always some dehumanizing term for Trump supporters, like "Trumpers" "America Firsters" "MAGA extremist" etc.
The extent of their hate and ignorance should be condemned with as much passion as they condemn racism.
It looks like BDS (at least on these threads on TFP) is giving TDS a run for its money..
It's hatred all the way around, folks! The two most detested Presidents in history.
I'll agree these are comparable when I see tens of thousands of college students across the entire country rioting and protesting out of hatred for Joe Biden, and when I see nearly every media and cultural outlet in the country seething in hate for Joe Biden.
Then, I will agree BDS is a real thing.
In the meantime, I'm glad your comment gives legitimacy to what we call TDS.
Oooo..
I liked that little twist at the end..
Your TDS has given you brain fog. When has Putin threaten Europe? Never. It’s not Germany. Remember Europe has invaded Russia several times. You knowledge of history is amazing. As well as your gullibility in falling for Military Industrial Complex and neocon BS propaganda. Dumb Democrat Disease is my guess.
I respectfully suggest you do some research on the role of the US under Obama and Biden with Victoria Nuland, the same players in place today (don’t think Obama is silent). You may learn something about the root cause of this war and the part the US has had in promoting it, along with Boris Johnson in the UK.
There were to be negotiations in the beginning, bu the US aided by Johnson talked Zelensky out of it. Of course it’s not their skin in the game is it, they’re not the ones dying, the cretinous creatures.
I’m not surprised that Americans don’t know anything about the recent history of Eastern Europe or have no experience of rebelling against a dictatorial regime - lucky you. It disgusts me deeply to see how ignorant, couch historian Americans automatically think it’s impossible that East Europeans could actually fight and die for their freedom, that they can only do something when paid and directed by the CIA or some other dark actors. Projection problem, isolationist America?
100% this.
Americans don’t need to support financial backing for anything but the comments are dripping with so much conceit and ignorance. Americans only know how to view the world with their own America-colored glasses, be it on the right or left.
You do understand that the Russians fought Hitler too? Nobody knows what Putin would have done, including Putin himself. Nobody knows what he is going to do now. But rah, rah, boom, cis, boom bah. Cheer on.
RIght!? Hitler and Napoleon both lost in Russia. It is a place where armies go and die.
Kinda like the Woke in Florida!
That made me chuckle. And I needed a chuckle!
Sure, but the Ukraine is not invading Russia. And to a large extent, Ukraine is a large part of that region that armies have historically gone to die. Where's Stalingrad?
You're right, my gut is telling me the Western Globalists seem to be escalating to invasion of some sort. Putin cannot give up or he will die and our 'president' is basically saying we won't either.
No "the" in the country called Ukraine.
Long before it was a country it was, as JC correctly states, a region known as the Ukraine. A very important region for several reasons. Additionally the region has been historically close to Russia and was a founding member of the USSR. There is no magic wand to make that history disappear. Hence the statement in this article that at the start of the Russian offensive the Ukraines thought of them as cousins.
You spelled Democrat wrong.
Ah yes, the appeasement canard. You know what also doesn't work? This satanic idea of American/NATO superpower invulnerability, with superhuman wisdom and perspicacity to properly arbitrate, manipulate and intervene in all disputes and injustices on the planet.
Argumentum ad Hiterlam is just so tired. There are millions of considerations that go into warmaking, and we surely don't have a great case for a just war under the divine moral law here. American blood and treasure should not be spilled as a result.
Great rhetoric Perry. I love the Queen's English. I mean King's English.
Smartest thing you've said today! In truth, we're killing Ukrainians with our aid. They would be better off had they capitulated from the start and begun a guerilla campaign. There would be some dead men, sure, but all those women and children would be alive.
About 90% of the comments just on this thread show exactly zero human compassion on a story that is about obvious human suffering. Only carping about how much money America spends to fight the New Cold War imposed by Putin. Watch out for the time Putin will force you to put your own lives on the line, not just your money. I used to think that when the West sold Eastern Europe to Stalin in slavery in 1945, it was just the mistake of a FDR just as decrepit as Biden is today. Seeing the meteoric rise of the toxic American ultra nationalistic isolationism, I realize that the fault really lies with ignorant Americans who can’t entertain more than one thought at a time. Just because the lying MSM said that Ukraine’s defense is noble, a bunch of armchair lazy thinkers decided it must be ignoble, because that’s the depth of their thought. Besides, Carlson Tucker said so, so “independent thinkers” must follow.
Hi Andy. You talk about “zero human compassion”.
Ukraine is totally destroyed because of people who think like you.
Sure, we bombed Ukraine. Poor Putin, you know, the one who claimed just before the invasion that there’s no invasion, it’s just an American lie, he didn’t have any choice. Or maybe you’re one of those types who after months of Russian ferocious bombing were still claiming that the Ukrainians were bombing their own cities. Are you always that obtuse or it’s only when prompted by Fox ?
When you leave the door open and a rabid raccoon shows up in the living room I don’t blame the raccoon. I blame the person who left the door open.
And then when the person who left the door open comes up with the plan
“Let’s throw hand grenades at the raccoon in the living room.”
I am allowed to explain cost benefit to that person because they are a proven moron.
So poor Racoon Putin has no choice, he’s a victim of the warmongering US, fresh from their victory in Afghanistan, and the bloodthirsty West Europeans, who can’t provide even thermal underwater for their armies. Did you ever hear of 300 years of Russian imperialism and colonialism, or that’s too complicated for your $79.99/mo newsletter?
Exactly, Kevin. Utterly destroyed and I am sure Andy will demand that your(not his) taxpayer dollars go to rebuild it with approved contractor's paid by American politicians.
So what's your plan genius? Is it the same one we " toxic American ultra nationalistic" types were given for Iraq? How about the master plan for Afghanistan? How about Syria and Libya?
Or is it the Vietnam plan? You know, the one where "we had to destroy it to save it".
If you genius would be old enough to have lived during the Cold War, or at least able to read something about it, you would know how things happened then and how things will happen now. It was always amazing how the woke, on their side, are blind to history and always pick only what suits them. Same in your ultranationalistic, anti-historical, self-defeating isolationism. America always blunders but eventually gets things right - or else you would now be living in the communist Gulag, which actually might have been an enlightening experience for ignorant Americans.
I remember the Cold War. I remember our assurances against NATO expansion given to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner when it finally ended. I also remember the words of one of its architects, Geoge F. Keenan, the best known advocate of the successful policy of containment of Soviet expansion during the Cold War when it became clear that we lied. Here’s an excerpt from, “A Fateful Error,” New York Times, 05 Feb 1997:
“Why, with all the hopeful possibilities engendered by the end of the Cold War, should East-West relations become centered on the question of who would be allied with whom and, by implication, against whom in some fanciful, totally unforeseeable and most improbable future military conflict?”
“[B]luntly stated…expanding NATO would be the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-Cold War era. Such a decision may be expected to inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion; to have an adverse effect on the development of Russian democracy; to restore the atmosphere of the cold war to East-West relations, and to impel Russian foreign policy in directions decidedly not to our liking … ”
If you end up in a Gulag, it's because you and like minded fools failed to heed those words.
“ If you end up in a Gulag, it's you and like minded fools who will be to blame.”
Congratulations, Timothy, you would have made a great NKVD and KGB officer. Maybe it’s not too late.
True enough that Keenan warned the West. And then there's that little hiccup of history - when Putin signalled he wanted Russia to join NATO, shortly after he became President. (Or at least that's the story). Could anyone possibly imagine what China would feel like right now with a full fledged NATO partner on its borders?
Oh what could have been..
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule
true but why this war? why now? these pictures could come from literally anywhere on the planet, they aren't unique to Ukraine. There are countless conflicts all over the globe that we choose not to be involved in as I write this - we even chose to withdraw from conflict after leaving billions upon billions of equipment, because we were all told we must resist "endless wars."
Then we wake up to this and we are all supposed to get on board. I think it's fair to ask why.
Absolutely, and the answer is that this war is different then, let’s say, a war between Ethiopia and Eritrea or the long tussle between Germany and France over Alsace and Lorraine, although all wars are horrible. America has a hard time accepting it, but this is an existential fight, just like the old Cold War was, and the war in Ukraine is just the beginning. It’s not even a new Cold War; only Americans eager to grab illusory “peace dividends” would think so. The US has two choices: let the imperialistic dictatorships win first (because China stands fast behind Russia and is even more dangerous) and intervene later at great expense, or contain the dictatorships now, before sacrificing countless American lives.
this is a great point. there's no question china/north korea/Iran are watching and waiting to see what we will do about it as they lick their chops and wait to pounce on their own ideological enemies. I could get on board with this if I thought this administration had the teeth and the wherewithal to formulate a cohesive foreign policy that communicated a "no tolerance" sort of message. but can anyone make a straight-faced argument that we have any of that right now?
We either go with what we have, hopefully much better in 2024, or we just tell Russia and China that the US is falling apart and the world belongs to them. I have less than zero trust in the Biden administration, but their attitude and results changed much between the Afghanistan debacle and the war in Ukraine. Seeing things only in black or white doesn’t lead to far.
"About 90% of the comments just on this thread show exactly zero human compassion on a story that is about obvious human suffering." - Maybe because we recognize one-sided Western propaganda when we see it. Did you notice there was ZERO mention of the suffering of Russian civilians in Ukraine? Who, it could be argued, have suffered FAR WORSE fates at the hands of the neo-Nazi battalions that make up most of the Ukrainian military; and about whom an equally tear-jerker story could've been written. But it wasn't. Why not? Where's the compassion for those ethnic Russian civilians?
It’s never a good idea to argue with a conspiracy theorist, but please explain to me your logical aberration: if “ neo-Nazi battalions” make up most of the Ukrainian army after one year of war and 100,000 losses, then Ukraine must have a huge, endless supply of neo-Nazis, but your neo-Nazis got only 2% of the votes in free elections n Ukraine (you know, the kind of elections that don’t exist in Russia). Or maybe all your neo-Nazis and “suffering Russian civilians” exist only in Putin’s propaganda from which you are fed?
If this goes south, ww 3 becomes reality . I would be less skeptical if our policy elites can lay out a feasible off ramp for this war
No, they would be raped and transferred to Russia. If Ukrainians thought they would be better off without the aid, then by now they would have overthrown Zelensky. Say what you want about American policy but you have no ability to speak for what another nation wants, even presuming you did speak Ukrainian.
I’d imagine you qualified Remesh?
Qualify for what, to speak in the name of another country or nation? I don’t presume to. If Ukraine wants or doesn’t want to bargain with Russia that is their prerogative. I sarcastically responded to your comment because you assume you know what’s best for them, when you just have an opinion about what you think is best for America.
It isn’t their prerogative when we are paying for it.
You are in no position to criticize anyone because we are currently executing your “death for Donbas” strategy and the country has been totally destroyed.
All of the rapes and murders are on you because we are doing your plan right now.
It’s fine to say the other plan would be worse but you still have to eat the results of your plan. We are doing your plan.
“Ohhh JD Vance is dumb tho!!!”
Okay cool but we aren’t doing JD Vance’s plan. We are doing your plan. How’s it going? Shitty? Okay let’s keep pushing tho…….
Okaaaayyy Kev. Very clear and concise argument you’ve got there.
“One year later, Kyiv stands, and Ukraine stands. Democracy stands,” Biden declared.
Who knows what Biden actually saw during his photo shoot in Kiev. My guess is he didn’t see what Lynsey Addario has seen, or will see “as long as it takes” for Biden and his war mongering pals in the senate to realize that Putin isn’t going to stop the killing and destruction until he controls northern and eastern Ukraine. When that finally happens, and it will happen, the only thing left standing will be blood covered rubble.
Do you truly believe Putin would be content with just northern and eastern Ukraine? All indications are not. What happened the last time Europe attempted to compromise with a dictator bent on Lebensraum? "Peace in our time"? Not exactly.
What indications do you have that Putin wants more? With the population of Ukraine being 43 million vs. the Russians 143 million, what makes you think Ukraine can stop Putin if he does? Do the math and you have a long conflict that even General Milley says Ukraine can't win.
What indications do you have that the Americans have the will to involve themselves in a war that can't be won? Better yet, why should we care? If you want a reason why we shouldn't, think Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan...
You make some excellent points, and I don't claim enough expertise in that subject to even debate them. Abandoning Ukraine to the wolves is also not the answer. All I can say is - as a Jew whose people have always been at the mercy of others until recently - there is inherent value in defending a free people from those who wish to subjugate them.
You know there a neo-Nazis in Ukraine who helped overthrow the former Russia backed president right?
" ... we're killing Ukrainians with our aid."
Absolutely and somehow rarely said.
If the Russians are committing crimes against humanity, as VP Harris says, then why are we doing no more than giving them weapons to destroy their own country?
If we are unwilling to put boots on the ground and planes in the air, then the war is lost. I am not recommending doing either of those.
The most absurd comment ever. Sure, let the Russians “de-Ukrainize” Ukraine the standard Soviet way, the way Stalin did it in the Baltic states, the territories stolen from Finland or from Romania (current “Moldova”). Physical elimination of anybody who was in politics, army, police and even teachers, Gulag for their relatives, interdiction to speak the native language, mass deportation to Siberia. Clueless, heartless Americans who just ape whatever opinions that hear on cable TV.
“Heartless Americans”
We are paying for all of it even though it isn’t even on our continent, scumbag.
Again, this is why I want Europe to be invaded and enslaved.
The shittiest and most ungrateful lazy pussies in the history of earth. I hope China invades Italy.
So, because Stalin (allegedly) did those things means Putin will also. Uh huh. Pretty sure that's the logical fallacy known as a non sequitur.
The war is already lost. According to former USMC intelligence officer and UN weapons inspector Scott Ritter: "Don’t believe the hype. Ukraine can’t win this war."
https://therealnews.com/scott-ritter-dont-believe-the-hype-ukraine-cant-win-this-war
You’re so behind the times; this war was supposed to be lost a year ago, everybody was saying it, not just a washed-out arms inspector.
This is absolutely a global problem. Putin has made it clear from day one that the West (the US and Western Europe) is his enemy, and Ukraine is just the beginning. China is eagerly waiting in the wings to see how much resolve the West has in stopping him and others from taking what they want. It won't be more than a hot minute before they take Taiwan and move into more countries in East Asia - why do you think Japan just pledged $5.5 billion to Ukraine and will host the G7 Summit with Zelensky? And Iran is now playing nice with Russia for the first time in hundreds of years. We need to quit this isolationist fantasy thinking and understand the geopolitical ramifications of pretending this is just a European conflict. Most of our experienced foreign intelligence leaders understand this.
Agree that we have an interest, but I think most of us realize that the current strategy is doomed in Russia like Hitler and Napoleon found out. Our 'leadership' has no idea what they are doing(or they are doing this on purpose) starting with removing all of our weapons like cheap energy development which has only helped Russia. Everything the U.S. has done aside from sending materiel to Ukraine has only helped Russia(e.g. sanctions).
Trump had everything under control making our country energy independent and strategically working with other coalitions and using moves of US strength. Our 'leaders' have now removed any leverage we have and I think it is by design and it will not end well for anyone except Russia.
Yip most of Jeannine’s post is a photo op. Zelensky in Japan is a photo op, FJB in Ukraine and Poland a photo op. President Trump would never have allowed this to go down, he sorted it all out. Told NATO countries to pay there share, he stopped the pay for slay in Gaza and the WB by cutting back the $$$. More importantly he stopped the Iran deal of reaching enrich uranium. Today it looks like the complete opposite to what he put in place for America. It’s beginning to sink in how little this current President understands about the situation he has brought upon Americans including the Covid debacle. The Legacy media doesn’t help either.
Japan's $5.5 billion to Ukraine is a photo op? Iran selling drones to Russia is a photo op? You are living in Trump's narcissistic fantasy world.
Russia and Iran are long-time allies.
Those so-called "experienced foreign intelligence leaders" you speak of are nothing more than MIC puppets seeing $$$ as long as this conflict is (intentionally) dragged on.
We "isolationists" you decry understand this. Putin would NOT have intervened in Ukraine had the US/NATO kept their grubby hegemonic hands off that country back in 2014.
Well put. They are dragging this out to make cash. Your taxpayer cash is paying Ukrainian pensions
Couldn't agree with your entire comment more, Kevin. Europe has all the resources it needs to take care of this.
Unfortunately, they don't have as many 'powerful' American politicians on their payroll as Ukraine does.
If that was what the US was thinking during WWII, the world today would have been a much grimmer place. I believe that the situation regarding Russia today is very similar.
It's also total BS that this is the problem of Europe and not our problem. Russia is very openly saying that they are planning to attack one of the NATO countries next (Poland or one of the Baltic states were mentioned). If Ukraine loses and the Russians do that, we our bound by NATO treaties to help. And when that happened it won't be only Ukrainian soldiers paying with their lives anymore.
And by the way, Europe is sending money and ammunition, some of the countries are sending a big fraction of military equipment that they own, and many of them are giving aid to Ukraine that is higher in terms of percentage of their GDP than the US.
My son has degrees in Russian and political science. He traveled to Moscow in 2018. He is saying exactly the same things you are. This war in Ukraine breaks his heart - he hates what Putin is doing and believes we need to do whatever it takes to stop him, because he will not stop in Ukraine. And he's the biggest American patriot there is.
So you think Putin will take over Poland. What about France?
You don’t think it’s because we arbitrarily split Russia up 30 years ago? Or do you think Putin wants the champs-elysees?
What about Maine? That’s to the east. Do you think Putin will take over Maine next? What about Rhode Island??
Well, I'd give them Rhode Island if they'd agree to stop there. RI is as stupidly woke as they come. The Huskies an have it.
Russkies, damnit.
Not to mention that by supporting Ukraine the Europeans are being deprived of energy and struggling to replace Russian supplies. They are doing their part.
This is a lie. Nobody is giving a bigger percentage of GDP than US. You are a liar. If Europe is giving so much then US support doesn’t matter.
But of course you are desperate for more US money because you are a teething rodent. Prepare to be treated like a rodent.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/
You are the liar. And it's very easy information to find, you didn't even bother to google. As for calling people "teething rodent" I don't even know what to say. I won't respond to you anymore. This behavior is beyond despicable. And FYI I'm a US citizen and don't have a Ukrainian citizenship. I live in the US.
Don't take it personally. Impotent people use insults when they have nothing worthwhile to say.
Oh great well then according to your stats, since US isn’t giving very much, as you allege, then you’ll be fine if we back out completely. Right?
Oh we can’t back out even though we aren’t really giving that much according to you?
Oh do you actually need us? Pussy.
You’re a parasite.
I, too, am at that point. It's sad to see, really. Generally these comments refrain from this level of name-calling and, basically, grade-school verbal bullying and abuse. I used to follow and participate heavily in the WSJ and NR comments - two rather expensive subscriptions which I kept for years past their expiration dates because there were some surprisingly diverse, intelligent opinions and ideas that would pop up in their comments threads. But both were taken over by a small handful of abusive commenters screaming at each other and one morning it struck me that I really didn't want to sit and drink my coffee in the middle of a bunch of fighting children; I cancelled my subscriptions. I miss several of the op ed writers, but the exceptional articles show up elsewhere anyway. I hope THP doesn't go the same way. Police yourselves people, or you're only going to be few people screaming back and forth.
One of them had a feature that you could block a particular poster. That kept me going longer than anything else. Right now if TFP had that I would click that link and never see another thing Kevin posts. His wit and intelligent comments do not outweigh this witless loss of control and overall degradation to the overall comments threads. I'd press that button.
This is a belief held by everyone who doesn’t really need the 50% of their money that is stolen by the government.
If you’re complaining about the comments section you aren’t reading the articles; which is what you pay the money for.
There should be a mute/block button and if that isn’t enough for you then you are an extremely creepy totalitarian.
OK if the Russkies are saying that openly, let's have some proof.
Euro countries are providing perhaps 5% of the effort. Don't blow smoke up our asses, Joey.
You want me to send you a clip from Russian TV where they are saying this? Do you understand Russian? They do it practically every day. The TV is 100% state controlled.
Here is one example (with English translation): https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1572087951416336385. Member of Russian parlament threatens to nuke England, for example.
Here they are saying how they'll destroy Poland in one hour: https://twitter.com/jatsenkoirina/status/1627271131303387136 (no English translation for this one, sorry, but because I'm sure you want to know the truth you'll find yourself some Russian-speaking person to translate).
You may also enjoy this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3D7bqKkBPw
Threats to attack Poland and Baltic countries are a daily thing (and prior to the war it was the same with Ukraine). Unfortunately not much is available in English. These are the main Russian TV channels, directly controlled by Kremlin.
Because I speak Russian (my native language), I can actually follow that stuff and see what is actually going on. Unfortunately many people in the US don't get direct access to this information and choose to believe some made up things.
"Euro countries are providing perhaps 5% of the effort." since you talk about proofs, let's have it.
As you seem to recognize, we don't get this stream here - because the Zen;inskyy apologists won't allow it. The US media won't allow it.
And by the way words are different than actions. Russia has spouted bullshit for decades. When Us war mongers challenged him, boom he acted.
No, Russia was carefully preparing for this war for many years, and this included indocrinating their own population via TV against Ukraine. For many years a huge fraction of state TV time was taken up by verbal attacks against Ukraine, as if a great country like Russia has nothing else to talk about. At the time I also thought this was just some kind of stupid way of enterntaining themselves but now I know better.
Right now a very heavy indocrination against the west, and some specific countries, continues. This is completely different from just "spouting bullshit". And if you did follow Russian media and politics, it would have been clear to you that this has absolutely nothing to do with US war mongers challenging anyone, and everything to do with Putin's great ambitions.
There are some Russians who protest this war too. I remember early in the conflict they were arresting people who were holding up placards objecting to it. So new people started showing up with blank placards for awhile, which was amazingly clever. And THEY were getting arrested. I've wondered if any of that is still going on or if they're too scared now and have given up.
Right now there is very heavy indoctrination ... by the West. The Neocons, the MIC, the DC fools all are gungho for war. Lots of money for military contractors, lots of stars to put on epaulets for newly minted generals in the Pentagon, lots of bluster so Joey Biden can spout off at a podium in Poland, further challenging Putin and ratcheting things up. And so Incompetent Harris can make war crimes allegations and insist that folks will be held to account. Not sure that is going to dissuade your pal Putin. But it will stiffen his resolve and bluster - as happened the next day when he tossed the missiles and nuke arms agreements.
Stupid is as stupid does.
I am ambivalent about the US support to Ukraine. I harken back to "'Peace for our time' was a declaration made by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain in his 30 September 1938 remarks in London concerning the Munich Agreement and the subsequent Anglo-German Declaration."
Chamberlain made an agreement with Hitler for Germany to stop its aggression and gobbling up other countries. Hitler conned Chamberlain and invaded Poland. Before Chamberlain arrived Hitler told his staff, he had no intention of honoring any agreement he would make with the British.
If the western world doesn't stop Putin in Ukraine, he will try to gobble up more countries. I think Putin is just as crazy as Hitler and just as brutal.
Biden needs to pressure the western European countries to spend their fair share helping Ukraine. However, I don't think the ever senile Joe has the backbone to do so. Also Ukraine is infamous for its corruption and I wonder how much of our money is going into Swiss accounts.
There are no easy answers to complex problems. If anyone believes there are easy answers, they are either stupid or a politician but then I repeat myself (Mark Twain).
The money is going to military and humanitarian supplies we purchase and send to Ukraine, so unless there is a massive resale operation in Kiev, there is little chance anyone there is making a profit. I also think the talk about Ukrainian corruption is a red herring used by both Russian and American propagandists to sway American public opinion. Regardless of whether there is corruption in high places in Ukraine, the Russians are attacking and brutalizing the masses of Ukrainians and destroying their country which to me is reason enough to send aid.
This statement in and of itself is either propaganda or incredibly naive. Very early in the conflict weaponry we provided was found for sale in Germany.
There's a mountain of evidence of Ukrainian corruption. One need only do a cursory internet search to find it.
I wonder how much of it is going into the accounts of Americans. And while I suspect a con is at play now I don't think it is Putin doing the conning. And what exactly convinces you Putin will march across Europe a la Hitler? He had been in power decades now without doing so. I think it unlikely he would be able to control that tyrannical impulse that long.
"And what exactly convinces you Putin will march across Europe?" Putin is rattling the saber at Sweden, Poland and the Baltic States. He has said he wants to expand Russia's borders to that of old Imperial Russia.
I take him at his word.
I do too, Lonesome. But one upside (so far) is that Putin's aspirations have not been met by his military's capabilities. With perhaps one hundred thousand soldiers dead, more wounded and with horrible logistics and leadership, Russia's army doesn't command the same respect it did a year ago. I doubt Putin can take on Finland in a fair fight (without tactical nukes).
The last time Russia invaded Finland, in 1932, the Fins fought them to a standstill.
Very true. Though I think it was '39.
Except he has said none of that. Damn you neocons are lazy thinkers.
I don't understand why you would defend a monster like Putin. Here's another country in danger of being absorbed by your pal Putin:
https://news.yahoo.com/russia-drops-ominous-warning-attack-110108875.html
Oh, I forgot to tell you, here's a hint that will help you in the future not to embarrass yourself by being ignorant. Now I don't want you to gasp in surprise when I give you this enlightening hint. This has been around for a long time. There are things on the internet called s e a r c h engines. I know it will be hard for you to believe but these engines can be used to enlighten ignoramuses like yourself and to find almost any information you are looking for and will make you look like you know what you are talking about.
I suggest you use these engines so people won't look at you like you're a left wing, moron, dumbass. You can thank me later, right after you apologize for insulting me.
Have a good day
https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2022/03/01/putins-dark-designs-restore-pre-1917-russian-empire
Here is a statement from the article:
"Equally worrying is that Putin’s Feb. 21 speech referred quite explicitly to restoring not the Soviet Union, which he criticized in various ways, but the Russian empire as it existed prior to 1917."
I read a lot. You should try it sometime. It will keep you abreast of world affairs and keep you from making a ass of yourself. Who is the lazy one now?
I await your apology.
After reading these hot links maybe it's hard core left wing nut cases like you who is a lazy ignoramus. I think you owe me an apology. I think these web sites prove your pal Putin is rattling the saber just like I said.
https://wsau.com/2022/02/17/russian-military-in-belarus-threatens-baltics-and-poland-says-lithuanian-president/#:~:text=VILNIUS%20%28Reuters%29%20%E2%80%93%20Russia%20has%20amassed%2045%2C000%20soldiers,with%20Ukraine%20is%20scheduled%20to%20end%20on%20Sunday.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/swedish-armed-forces-says-russian-fighter-jets-violated-swedish-airspace-2022-03-02/
https://www.therecord.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editors/2022/02/03/putin-wants-to-expand-russias-borders.html
For all of you who don't read the news, here is more proof Russia has imperialistic goals.
https://news.yahoo.com/russias-medvedev-floats-idea-pushing-091433077.html
Oh please. You probably think Charlie Wilson did the world a service. It may not be that simple. You are old enough to know that. And even if you buy his talk, he doesn't just have nuclear arms, he has a stockpile. Is this a bear that should be poked? Especially poked by a fool?
Lynne, you sound just like the left wing nuts. They tell me all the time what I think. I find it insulting. You like the left have no idea what I think.
Putin like Hitler is a mad man so when a sociopath tell me something, I believe him.
I reread my comment. I was not telling you what to think I was disagreeing with your comment. No insult intended. I think emotions are running high on thos topic. I know mine are. And as to the mad-man comment I reiterate it is not that simple.
Have you seen/heard those words actually come out of Putin's mouth, or are you just parroting what the media says he said?
Have you read any of the links I posted above backing up my claims?
I didn't just anally extrapolate my claims. I backed them up.
Putin has shown very strong strategic skills, but there is a lack of military skill to back his plans for bringing back the empire. Hitler continually ignored sound military advice and relied on his judgement...Putin may be demonstrating the same fatal flaw.
Biden showing up in Ukraine invites Xi Jinping visiting Putin. It was an extremely stupid move since the US at this time is not prepared to fight. Supplying military jets with parts by going to the air museum is not prepared! Not being able to recruit enough soldiers, sailors, marines, etc. is not prepared. To provoke a fight when there is nothing to fight with is lunacy. Biden demonstrates the corruption of Douglas MacArthur rather than the wisdom and foresight of George Marshall.
Also all the claims about Europe overflowing with money ignores the reality that vegetables are being rationed in the UK and heat is severely limited in France, Germany, etc. These countries are also overextended and indebt.
Respectfully disagree that Biden landing in Ukraine invites Xi to do the same in Moscow. Xi would never show his hand so blatantly. He's canny and wants to back a winner. Russia, so far, is not that.
Agree, Xi will evaluate very carefully and he follows a very careful policy of not putting "all the cards on the table" Biden's visit does allow for such a counter move, but that is more a checker game move than Xi's chess game moves.
That false comparison argument is so worn out, let alone makes any sense. Putin is not Hitler. US/NATO leadership are not Chamberlain.
“Those Who Do Not Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It.” George Santayana
Absolutely. WHICH history is the key.
So many countries have mortgaged their future and their kids futures on the woke agenda and the scam of green energy they have nothing to pay with. Same as us and Brandon, just take out another credit card.
Not to mention, the biggest issue with woke leadership is they are also cowards. They will let others die, but they lack the courage to really enforce policies to stop aggressiveness. Add in maybe the most corrupt and useless agency ever, the UN and there you have it. Half ass leadership trying to play both sides. But it’s only the little folks who die and suffer. Hey, whose up for Davos?
We need to dump the UN. It is a useless, corrupt organization. Like the idiots we are, we give millions in foreign aid to countries regularly vote against us in the UN and we like idiots keep giving these pest hole countries millions.
We need to stop foreign aid and move the UN to France. The French hate us and think the UN is the best thing since hot sliced bread.
Good idea - we pump a fair amount of money into it. Might offset some of the money spent in the direction of Ukraine.
Throw the humanitarian aspects aside and consider the pure, utilitarian financial concerns. Consider the cost the US spent to fight WWII (again, just the financial cost - ignore the human cost). Adjusted for current inflation, we spent over 4 trillion dollars to fight WWII. Vietnam is over 1 trillion. Same for the Korean War. Iraq: about 1 trillion.
It's conceivable we spent tens of trillions of dollars fighting Russia during the Cold War. (https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/mharrison/war_and_economy/13_cold_war_costs.pdf)
Assuming the goal is to defeat Russia in a significant way, 68 billion is an incredibly good ROI versus all of the other ways we've tried (and failed) to do it so far.
You might say, "we should have never fought any of those wars either." That may be true, but it's not relevant. We *did*. If the intent is to stop Russian aggression and create a world in Eastern Europe even more favorable to US interests, even 100 billion is a cheap marketing campaign.
Imagine how dumb you have to be to accept David French’s argument that the cost of the war is the dollar amount in Pentagon outlays from year one.
Are you that stupid or are you just a dishonest sack of shit?
Yeah I’m looking forward to a nation with 6500 nukes collapsing. Sounds like a good plan. Psychopath.
You, sir, are an intellectual giant. Thank you for bringing your brilliant observations to the internet so that we can all bask in their glory.
LOL yes. You are welcome, Wesley.
Please bask responsibly.
Oh, yeah, throw the humanitarian aspects aside. Hell, it's cheap at twice the price.
Throw the humanitarian aspects aside? Nuclear war? Just ignore the one. WTF? Why even post that comment?
I was responding to the original assertion that Europe should be paying for it. The humanitarian aspects were already cast aside. I'm saying that if you are going to ignore the humanitarian aspects, then we're not actually talking about all that much *actual money*, as compared to (for example) SDI.
I'm not even arguing that Europe shouldn't be paying for it. I'm arguing that the bill isn't very high considering our baseline military expenditures that have been, historically, far less effective in defeating Russians.
EDIT:
To clarify, lets say you take a metric like "Russian Tanks Destroyed Per Dollar". The 68 billion or whatever we've actually sent to Ukraine has had a much better ROI than the roughly 6 trillion we spent since 1945 and destroyed effectively zero Russian tanks.
Nuclear war was on the table the second Russian troops crossed into Ukrainian land. And in my estimation is just as unlikely as that first day. I might be wrong, but I haven't seen many serious people talking about a real nuclear threat. We're just not at that level (yet). The wildcard is if Putin is actually mentally incompetent as some people are claiming; I've never met him, so I can't say.
It is most definitely our problem. We don't live in a vacuum. If Europe falls into Russian hands, we'll have less influence, and thus can be affectively shunned from more resources, more exports.
I’m gonna be honest. I literally cackled when I read
“If Europe falls into Russian hands…..”
😂😂😂
Regardless, whatever argument you make for this being our problem because of tertiary downstream etc etc, that is an argument for Europe paying for all of this because it is much more their problem than ours.
🤣🤣😘yip comedy comment hour
They are ALSO paying for it.
Okay so my argument is that they should pay for 100% of it because it is their problem. And then you come in with “They are ALSO paying for it.” with ‘also’ in all caps because they are paying for 4% of it?
Do you even understand how fundamentally immoral deceptive manipulative and dishonest that is? Maybe you don’t.
F**k you, you dishonest dickweed. We have been providing a defense umbrella for the parasitic effete whores in Europe for 80 years.
They have free healthcare because we give them free national defense. Everyone in Europe can absolutely blow themself. Time to man up, pussies. Pay for your own shit and defend your own country for once in your life, you useless non-contributing cocksuckers.
Preach Kevin. Why are the world’s best cities in Europe? Why do they boast about their healthcare? Because they don’t have defense budgets!
Tell me how you really feel 😂😂 (but yes, they should pay for their own crap, if for no other reason we can stop hearing the “we have free healthcare and we’re better than you” trope)
This angers me to no end. They do not have free healthcare. The EU does not have healthcare. Each individual nation state has healthcare. Which is what the US should have. Each state. Healthcare.
Truth hurts.
And then the Euros disparage and mock us, to boot.
Oh Bruce knows. The Europeans need to pay for every single time they have mocked America.
I literally want to watch them suffer. They thought they could get away with the cheap shots. Nope.
I f***ing hate Europeans. I hope their shit gets invaded. Europeans can blow me. Scumbags.
Actually Bruce, I think the disparaging and mocking is being done by Kevin today. He's in fine form, especially his post below..I can almost see the smile on his face from here..
I have a sneaky suspicion he really agrees with the comments of the people he hurls insults at. But can't openly admit it.
:)
They should mock us. We are fools. But the real irony is the mockery about our Wild West mentality and OMG thr guns!!!! While they have their greedy paws out for GUNS.
Kevin I would have said it with less nuance, but I heartily agree😎👍
Wow. Way to go. You really know how to articulate yourself.
If you’re going to disagree with me in the most dishonest way possible you’re going to get hit with profanity and insults.
Kevin, I really like your comedy, but that anger is way more effective when well-placed.
Well I’m sorry but what am I supposed to say to the counter of
“Europe is ALSO paying for it”???
Like they are chipping in $100,000 and I’m obliged to respect this argument? No.
Is it not a fundamentally bad-faith dishonest argument?
I thought the same when I was stationed there from '88-'90.
Chump change compared to Biden’s farting greenbacks at Kyev
Borrowed greenbacks.
We are paying the bulk
Barely.
Return of the neocons
Hilarious. Russia can’t even take Ukraine and suddenly it will conquer Europe. You are clearly out of your mind.
Umm.... If Ukraine were not receiving a steady stream of weapons from the West you can be damn sure Putin would have overrun it and be on to his next country or two by now.
So what if the Russians take over Europe (a bit of science fiction and fantasy, but let’s roll with it)?
It will result in a restoration of traditional values like Christianity, marriage, real men, a strong military, pride in history and culture. What’s not to love?
Looks like you have some rosy picture of Russia. How about people sent to 10+ years to penal colonies in Siberia because they dare to call the war a war? People being raped (including men), beaten, and tortured to death by police who come to arrest them because they are deemed to be disloyal to the regime? Or because they participated in a protest? Or just happened to be walking next to a protest? Is that the kind of a country you'd want to live in? I'll pass thank you, traditional values or not.
Regarding traditional values: it's all just posturing. Putin had a number of mistresses and children born outside of marriage, this is a very well known fact. Almost everyone among the top Russian politicians has 2-3 families (one legal one and a few more on the side).
You have hit the real motivation.
We have no influence now. We have money and have demonstrated remarkable foolhardiness therewith. We are like the idiot rich kid who thinks you can buy friends in the hood.
“Europe falls into Russian hands”?
Domino much Nati?
What kind of influence do you think we have now?
Long before the invasion there was the sane American viewpoint, and an actual treaty agreement with the Russian's, that because of its proximity to the Russian border, Ukraine should be neutral and free of NATO arms. It was a reality based decision predicated on the fact that historically the region was used to launch major invasion's of Russia on two separate occasion's. And, a large part of the region speak's and is of Russian ancestry. We all watched what happened happen.
(As a note, the ongoing campaign to erase, sever and separate American citizen's from a living sense of their own historical dignity and agency make's it easier to manipulate the international stage. I like this line from the movie VENGEANCE: "If everything means everything then nothing means anything." The message. You have no history, so history has no consequence, so history does not exist, and reality is what the State and criminal finance says it is. Orwell, Huxley et al.)
It is interesting that Burisma operate's in Ukraine but the actual company is located in Cyprus. Cyprus is noted for its non-extradition law's and being a last stop hideout for international grifter's. Our current Presidency, and most likely the Ukrainian horror, is the result of the DNC/surveillance state/MSM lap top cover-up. The Ukraine has long been a money laundering center for oligarch's and cartel's. Was/is Biden hip deep? NATO, as reported by the GRAY ZONE, at the recent Davos criminal clatch, along with BlackRock, is pushing a "must win" because Ukraine is to be the future model of financial totalitarianism. All digital currency and total surveillance. Last year's assault on Holland's farmer's was implemented because the Davos boys want to build a "city of the future" there as well. The Zelensky family, if you believe Mark and Aaron is receiving billion's in loan's (his wife was at Davos) and guarantee's from the IMF/WEF/CCP crowd. Likewise, a string of assassination's of Ukrainian leader's open to compromise and negotiation for a peace settlement. There's no money in peace. Didn't Boris Johnson block peace negotiation's early on?
You mean no more to the DNC/CCP/Davos/Wall Street perp's looting the American treasury than the poor Ukrainian people pictured in today's article. Like them you and your life can be discarded at will. Starting with East Palestine you don't have enough finger's and toe's to count the instance's of betrayal. Recent Taibbi Twitter report's have uncovered evidence that the DNC/surveillance state is already creating categories and making list's of citizen's for an eventuality they fully plan to implement.---It's simple. Some grifter's rigged the Monopoly Game, looted the board and in the process destroyed the game. Your life and future is scattered on the floor with the little dog, the thimble, the dice and the sport's car but the "get out of jail free card" is missing (ask Julian and Edward). There is no game. There's YOU, there's the Constitution and the Republic. Stand or perish.
Excellently stated!
Brilliant I’m reading this for third time Mike.
Leadership requires us to lead, as no nation in The EU has the ability to respond to such an immediate threat at scale. Still, I agree with you Kevin. Europe’s GDP and population are roughly equivalent to ours. This is a very opportune time for NATO to develop a strategy that shifts a far more significant burden of Europe’s defense back to Europe. We defended, then rebuilt Europe after WW II, and they are still getting a free ride from us regarding their own defense.
It's a deal. This is less than $200 per person in the US. I'd gladly pay that and more. It sure beats wasting money on Social Security, welfare, farm subsidies, protectionist nonsense, Medicare, etc.
Dang, your sarcasm almost went over my head.
OK, but no nuke sales
It is sheer madness for this to be taking place! I wasn’t going to respond to this until I saw your comment. Why are we paying for it Kevin?
You're not paying for any of it (except through the inflation money printing causes). Your kids and grandkids, however, will see the bill come due one day. This is all borrowed money.
I just find it astounding Biden has the gall to go to Ukraine first before Ohio.
The a specific term for this: “wagging the dog,” famously done by Clinton bombing Iraq during the Lewinsky scandal. Same thing here. Big problem, incompetent response, let’s try to distract the voters by a grand international gesture. But keep Buttigieg in office so we don’t lose that support. No one knows anything or cares about Ohio anyway.
Hopefully Ohioans will remember this next year.
I hope ALL Americans remember this.
Believe me, we remember it now!
He had to pick up his and Hunter's paychecks.
I was in the Ukraine about 3 years ago. I rode on the train pictured (or at least painted the same way). Ride from Lviv to Ternopil to visit my daughter while she was working in a home for disabled people. Both those cities were beautiful and I’m sure today they are in ruins.
This war was instigated by the US to trap Russia into fighting AND for the US and NATO to impose sanctions against them.
The US is now sending Ukraine money to “help save democracy”. What a load of BS!!!
My heart goes out to the Ukrainian people because they were used as pawns and now their beautiful country and very beautiful people are in ruins.
The US is sending tax payer money as a sign a Virtue Signaling”.
And Zelenskyy keeps convincing dumb ass leaders like mine in Canada to send more money.
It’s a dam shame. Ukraine is now the new Afghanistan. Soon the US will start a war in the South China Sea and only then will they leave Ukraine. They will shout: We must go save democracy in China !!!!!
Crap, Crap, Crap.
Couldn't agree more
This is ridiculous.
Someone is watching too much newsmax
Someone is reading too much NY Times and watching NBC.
Anybody can look at the world as it is.
It does help to watch over the years and remember your observations.
Thank you. Exactly right.
Best comment here Sylvian. People don't read and pay attention to the right, credible sources, so they don't see it. It's been increasingly obvious since 2014 that the goal has been to goad Russia into a conflict, to allow the West to retaliate and weaken their regime's influence. Which has mostly been a benign influence that helped greater Europe.
It's like watching the Star Wars prequels and not realizing that Palpatine had his hand on the scale the whole time.
Thank you Perry. I read alot of the info that Richard Maybury (from Early Warning Report). He give the whole picture from both sides to his subscribers. He’s awesome.
And, I loved George Orwell’s books (Animal Farm and 1982).
Animal farm is the funny dam book I’ve ever read (when looking at it through politics).
1982 is just crazy stuff. The stuff was written in the 1940’s or something like that and George explained well what exactly is going on right now with the media. They change from one bad news to another in order to distract the people from the truth.
Unfortunately, up here in Canada, our government is running a Bill called C10 where it will allow “them” to decide what the “general public” to read. They claim this will protect us. The sad thing is that most people don’t know or understand the C10 thing so they just ignore it. It’s really sad.
I call it like I see it and you sound like a propagandist.
Are you CIA?
Thank you.
“On top of that, there are the tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians who have been killed. That includes at least 400 children. Russian troops have raped and tortured countless Ukrainians.”
——————————————————
On day one I said we should give Putin the Donbas region and turn eastern Europe into a weapons depot to establish deterrence.
We chose not to do that, because Jake Sullivan and Susan Rice and Chuck Todd and a bunch of other total f***ing morons knew better, and the above listed atrocities happened. And Ukraine is now in ashes. Good job, simpletons.
Glory to Ukraine……..but first we have to burn the entire country to the ground………but glory to Ukraine.
Has anyone here been to Russia? It’s nice. You can’t criticize the government and they have great hotels. Putin is a bad guy but it is not North Korea.
Putin controlling the Donbas region as opposed to Saddamyr Husseinskyy controlling the Donbas region represents a 0.00% change in quality of life for the people who live in the Donbas region.
When you elect a feckless corrupt child molesting coward, and deterrence fails, the best option is NOT to get into a slap fight with an insane person who has nukes.
I agree thta European can pay, but they do pay. So it is not that the US is alone in paying.
As to Russia being a nice country, that is a verynaïve remark? Nobody doubts that Russians are nice people when you let them be nice. If you send tem in a foreigne country by justifying what clearly is an invasion and an attempt of annexation, they become whatr the Red Army has always been : a brutalk machinery ifor which human life does not count and the soldiers of which are free to torutre and rape at will. That is the other reality of Russia. And Putin certainly is not a nice man. He takes himself for another Peter the Great or Catherine the great, and he is actually working (has been working ever since he came to power) for the reconstitutionof the Soviet empire. Proof: his interventionin the Northern Caucasus, in Georgia, his threats to Moldavia (his next target). And to give one last teling image: we were all against the French trying to keep Algerai French to protect tha French settlers in Algeria. We calles the Algerian war a just war of decolonization. That is exactly what the Ukrainian warb is: a war against a coonizing pos=wer (Russia) which considers Ukraine as one of its colonies that it "rightfully" owns. So for =get about Rissia being fine and Putin a nice man,. Leave Russia out, they don'yt have the possibility to spoeak up any way or the other, because Putin's totalitarian regime won't give the a voice.
All of that may be true. But why should the American taxpayer have to pay a DIME?
I had a stroke trying to read this. Did you use a translation app?
That's a very unkind remark, Kevin. You think your stroke compares to the epileptic fit he was having as he wrote it? C'mon, man!
C'mon guys. Not everybody is a native English speaker, and this blog reaches the whole world. I just about guarantee that Mssr. Friedberg speaks better English than any of us speaks his language.
I should make clear that I totally respect people who speak multiple languages because I only speak one.
But I still had a stroke reading it lol.
I simply typed as it went, and failed to reread my text to correct it. My mistake, but it may happen to all of us, especially when one has to react to what one sees as outlandish comments. The lesson is well taken. tough. I shall always check my comments for errors, so that my texts will be readable without having strokes or fits or anything of that sort.
Western leaders are among the most depraved, warmongering, arrogant and satanic, and stupid, on the planet. They brook no dissent from their neoliberal, WEF, godless agendas. They believe they are ultimately spotless in fault and that their progressive revolutionist mindset is and MUST be the future.
Russia and China, for their many faults and problems, just aren't taking that road. I'm no Putin scholar, but our leaders are so disgusting that I find it unlikely he's as bad as they are.
I just don't undertsand from where you take the information. I am Austrian, I have seen russian soldiers from very close between 1948 and 1962, I have seen and lived through tye Russian invasion of Hungary while in Vienna, and the invasion of tchochoslovakia In 1968. those were not nice things, but colonial wars toi reestablish a contested communistregime. nothing nice about it. You should read up some of Russian history and east europrean history.
I agree with Kevin. The war in Ukraine was created by the U.S. government & NATO, and the U.S. government & NATO can end the war today. TFP should publish a companion piece about THAT story.
Nice pro-US Empire propaganda piece here. I'm sure it will have its intended effect of strengthening the resolve of many war hawks to never ever negotiate a peace to end this tragic war, because "Putin is Hitler and we don't negotiate with terrorists, USA good Russia bad, freedom and democracy, rules-based order, blah blah blah". Enjoy the wonderful world of kindergarten.
Yes, the president that won an election because intelligence services lied about his criminal record then goes to the country where he has corrupt relationships, floods his partners in crime with money, and declares that "democracy stands".
These are heartbreaking pictures, but they remind me of what my Ranger friend once told me, "Baghdad was a beautiful city until we blew it all to hell."
Mine are not anti-Ukraine. To the contrary mine are anti-proxy war and the harm that this one has visited on the people of Ukraine. I think those poor people have been used as pawns for decades at least, maybe forever.
I am not anti Ukraine. I am pro American. I want my tax dollars to stay in America.
My dance instructor was on the front lines of the invasion. I once wore a shirt I'd picked up in Morocco to the dance and he said, "I killed a lot of people wearing those."
I'm taking his word over yours, sorry. But don't listen to me, my perspective if different from yours so I must be a PutinBot, like the ones that got Trump elected!
Btw, nothing about any of my comments is "anti-Ukraine".
Most people who've seen real combat and have had to kill on the battlefield don't speak about it so glibly. The veterans I know who saw real combat would never speak that way about having killed people.
I hope your friends also don't scream at their toddlers for crying because it shows weakness.
He was disturbed for sure, and I wouldn't post other things he told me here.
And yes I pick up the insinuation that I'm making the story up, and find it offensive.
I wasn't insinuating that you made up the story.
Comment was about your dance instructor not you.
Unsure where the screaming at toddlers thing is coming from...
“Name one problem that can’t be solved with a tank, ha ha”. General HR McMaster
Terrific photos.
Stay safe, Lynsey Addario.
Thanks for saying that. I’m getting quite depressed otherwise reading these comments.
Remarkable if devastating images, and I cannot even imagine how someone can be brave enough to do this job.
I know, right? Patrizia seems to be the very first person to actually engage the content of this article. All the rest has been back on forth on whether we should or shouldn't be helping them try to be free. Man, France bankrupted itself - literally - trying to help the U.S. be free once. Then taxed their way into a bloody revolution trying to climb out of it.
We can all cheer for the bravery and resolve of Ukrainians. And weep for the savagery and needless deaths, especially of the innocents. And curse Putin for this invasion.
But let's not lose sight of the fact that former Israeli PM Bennett has credibly asserted that the Biden Cabal - especially the odious Victoria Nuland - scuttled the peace talks that might have ended this madness. And then blew up the Nordstream Pipeline and lied about it, creating the worst environmental disaster of recent memory. Continuing to dribble arms into this conflict - instead of working to end it - is not "defending democracy." It is dangerous and cruel. Maybe there isn't a way out but cheering on this madness isn't what sane and sober leaders do. Is there irony in Democrats waving Ukrainian flags but cursing ours? Defending Ukraine's border while abandoning ours. In vowing to run if America were invaded but exalting in Ukraine's fight for its homeland? Or caring about Ukrainian suffering but mocking the residents of East Palestine OH? Just wondering.
Let’s also not forget that Biden literally invited the Russians to invade Ukraine, and strengthened their position by cutting US oil and gas exploration as much as he could, banning development on federal lands, canceling the Canadian tar sands, pipeline, and so forth.
This is what happens when an idiot is at the helm, elected by idiots.
Increasingly, I agree with De Tocqueville who argued that mob democracy will be our doom.
To call him an idiot implies this is mischance. IMO this is all carefully calculated. Perhaps not by JB himself but carefully calculated nevertheless.
Where is Greta decrying all the greenhouses gases that escaped into the atmosphere when the pipeline exploded?
How dare you??!!
There is an essay/interview out on Unherd right now with Fiona Hill in which she is questioned about the pipeline incidents and says in spite of the circumstantial evidence, she doesn't think the U.S. did it. She thinks the Ukraine did, but doesn't know how. Doesn't prove anything, but the discussion is interesting. Here's their blurb about who she is if you don't know her:
"Few people better understand the West’s fraught relationship with Russia than Fiona Hill. Born in Bishop Auckland, she went on to study History and Russian at St Andrews before a scholarship at Harvard took her to America. From there, Hill rose rapidly through the ranks to become one of the world’s foremost experts on Putin’s Russia, brought into the administrations of George W. Bush, Barack Obama and, finally, Donald Trump."
Hill is an inveterate liar. She has an established history of contradicting her own statements when it’s politically useful to do so.
For example...?
I added that interview to my YT queue yesterday! Going to watch it now. Thanks!
Oh I remember her from the impeachment silliness. She appeared to have the same, unwarranted intellectual conceit of all the State Department flacks and dullards in the room.
I agree. Nevertheless, she might be right on this.
It is no wonder that the world hates the United States. We are by far the most powerful nation; we spend more on our military than all other countries combined - including China and Russia, yet our government has not for decades used that power thoughtfully, wisely, or sparingly. We use it to meddle in the affairs of nations everywhere. As much as I love America, we are rightly perceived by the world as bullies.
And why is this? It is not because the people want it; those we elect to power want it; those vastly more powerful than them in the unelected Permanent Deep State want it; the Military-Industrial Complex that Eisenhower warned us about wants it. Have no doubt: the public is no longer remotely in control of its government or the elites who in turn control IT. And as Tom Sowell has said, there is no more dangerous or stupid way to make decisions than to put them in the hands of those who bear no penalty for being wrong.
A YouTube video by professor John Mearsheimer seven years ago, "Why is Ukraine the West's Fault?"
https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4
explains the "Ukraine question" perfectly. Russia, whose economy is 1/14 that of the United States, was never going to allow a NATO ally on its border, and Putin said so unequivocally. Given the US' size and hostility toward Russia - and its history of "regime change" politics, he would be out of his mind to allow the enemy to perch against his back. Yes, Putin's a horse's ass, but what did you expect him to do? And of course the US Government - who wouldn't spend $5B USD to protect its own border has now spent over $100B "protecting" that of a country most Americans can't find on a map. And why would the thoroughly corrupt Alleged President* administration do such things? I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.
Exactly. A border dispute in Eastern Europe. None of our business. Time to quit meddling!
Mearsheimer is possibly right, but I remember him as the scum who wrote a treatise a few years ago about how the “Israel lobby” controls the U.S.
Given that the Israelis are basically the only ones who have tried to maintain neutrality and mediate a peaceful settlement in Ukraine, I wonder if he still thinks they’re evil incarnate.
He's not wrong about the Israel Lobby's influence, even if our geopolitical interests align.
Maybe it's just that the majority of Americans support Israel. Ever think of that?
I don’t think the politicians are in control either. It is the administrative state and the security state, the politicians come and go. Remember how angry Vindaman(a LTCOL!!!!) was that THE PRESIDENT didn’t agree with him and the rest of the admin state!!?? How dare he!!!
As a counterpoint to the Mearsheimer argument, suggest listening to podcasts of interviews of Steven Kotkin. He’s a historian, wrote the three volume biography of Stalin. He thinks Ukraine has the right as a sovereign country to decide for itself whether to join NATO or not. But he also worries about America’s involvement at the expense of our military stocks.
I think there’s a treaty about Ukraine giving up nukes for the promise to not join NATO. Not that treaties are worth much these days.
It was the Bucharest deal, the USA along with Russia and Ukraine made a deal. Ukraine gave up all atomics based in its country in exchange for vague guarantees of territorial integrity.
Your statement really doesn’t make sense. Give up nukes in exchange for not joining NATO is a lose-lose condition. I just read the Wikipedia on Budapest Memorandum and Ukraine NATO relations and did not see anything about a treaty that told Ukraine to give up nukes in exchange for assurances it wouldn’t join NATO. Ukraine gave up nukes so it wouldn’t get sanctioned by the West, and in exchange for security assurances by Russia, US, Britain. And that none of these powers would interfere militarily or economically in Ukraine. You’re welcome to fact check me.
This is BS. Ukraine was not under threat of sanctions for nukes because nukes sere grandfathered into Ukraine when USSR gave up the ghost. What are you smoking?!
US/UK took advantage that Ukraine was in shambles economically and made them give up the nukes because that's always been the strategic goal of the West. US, UK and Russia sign security guarantees to Ukraine and recognized Ukrainian borders as of 1991.
This is a straight up lie!
Lose-lose for who? But otherwise that is my understanding as well. NATO did not want a non-member with nukes. Russia did not want NATO to control the Ukraine. No treaty, just "assurances". Obama's involvement in the Maidan revolution/coup bears scrutiny in all this. As does all that Burisma money.
Russia was a non-member of NATO with nukes, you twat. Russia that has hated you for DECADES! Hate of the United States has been drilled into into us with mother's milk. Billboards, movies, songs, poems. In 9th and 10th grade they would separate girls and boys for military preparedness classes. The scenario that they would make us practice is that Americans dropped a bomb on Soviet Union and invaded. Boys would practice shooting. Girls were trained in triage for battlefield trauma - concussion diagnostic, applying tourniquets, injections, setting broken bones.
You think Russia is conservative? By your definition, so was Soviet Union. nuclear family (which is considered an essential building block of a communist society) and gay people in jails. And no guns, under any circumstances, no guns
Part of me doesn't give a shit if people like you know or understand. I can always leave America. You can't. Russia hates you with a searing passion born of jealousy, thwarted ambition and chauvinism – and you don't even understand it, you stupid, stupid sheep.
Other than your vile language, so what? I am not pro-Russian. Nor I blinded by hatred thereof as that is a fool's mission and can have devastating consequences, intended or otherwise. I note that you still refer to Russia as "us". Telling, very telling.
I’ll stand corrected. Thanks for clarifying.
Bill Clinton's administration.
Agreement in the early 90’s that stipulated Ukraine give up their nukes.
Sure. Understood. But to some extent Ukraine's "right" reminds me of a discussion I had with my chief tech about the Mike Tyson rape case. A "beauty queen" had invited Tyson to her room at 1 a.m. after he had spent the day profanely bantering with the contestants, later having him arrested for rape. My take was that if you invite an alligator into your bed and the alligator bites you, is it 100% the alligator's fault?
Her response was, "You always have the right to say no - even at the last second."
Mine? "Yes, you always have the right. You just may not have the ability."
Have read the first two volumes, but did not think the third volume was out yet. Is it?
imminent. If you’ve ever listened to Kotkin, he’s brilliant. But he sounds like Joe Pesci. 😂
Unfortunately I’m a terrible listener but laser like reader. I look forward to it.
Why is the US taxpayer responsible for this? Why? Why can't our tax dollars be used to benefit us? Just once?
The money isn't helping anyway, it's hurting. Every dime we send to this madness just fuels it. It's an ancient border dispute. And it would have been resolved long ago if we hadn't put fuel on the fire.
Insanity. Absolute insanity.
Yet, somehow, Biden the Incoherent has a 40% approval rating. Maybe we have the leaders we deserve...
Why can't our tax dollars be used to benefit us? Just once?
We are $31 trillion in debt and rising. It would be bad enough if it were our "tax dollars." But these nitwits are spending money and leaving the IOU for our children and grandchildren.
The interest may well bring this house of cards down.
Our leaders are afraid off what will happen if Putin achieves his dream of rebuilding the Soviet Union. That’s why they see this spending as a benefit to the American people. Whether they are right or wrong I don’t know but I think it is a mistake to reflexively oppose spending on foreign aid. America isn’t an island after all.
Somewhere between "American isn't an island" and "the American taxpayers paying $4 TRILLION for foreign misadventures in the last couple decades" is a place called sanity. Especially when none of those misadventures have made the world either a better or safer place. Quite the opposite. We completely destabilized the entire Middle East. Now we are destabilizing Eastern Europe.
I could handle it if we'd spent $4 billion. But $4 TRILLION? When our infrastructure is literally in catastrophic condition. Have you, by any chance, seen the trains in Asia? or Europe, for that matter? Have you seen the roads in Singapore??? Have you been to our international airports lately...and compared it to Hong Kong's airport?
The long-suffering American Middle Class have been footing the bill for the world's defense long enough. Not only are we NOT appreciated for being everyone's "free" police force; we are despised for it.
It is far from reflex. To start with it is not only unknown what Putin will do, it is unknowable. Please educate yourself.
Just more proof that 40% of Americans are unqualified to vote.
While I feel for these people, I care for America more. It’s like we, or at least Joey, have so much invested in ukraine, the US doesn’t register. The southern border? Meh, not important we are being invaded with young military aged men run by the cartels. East Palestine OH? Meh. More important to focus on white construction workers than an environmental disaster.
Ukraine needs to end. Russia may retain Crimea and the Donbas. I don’t really care. We should not be fighting this to the last Ukrainian and the last American taxpayer dollar. Enough.
It is extremely naive to think Russia will stop in Ukraine. It is obviously just the beginning
Well that’s the old domino theory from Vietnam. And that’s extremely naive.
Here’s a thought. Focus on building up actual NATO countries instead of the Bidens treasure pot.
First of all. I do think pursuing the domino theory was the right move. Secondly, this is slightly different. This is military driven (with the silly excuse of - there are some Russians there). It is more akin to Hitler waltzing into Czechoslovakia.
It is completely different from 1938. The only thing the two scenarios have in common is that they both happened in Eastern Europe.
I have a book on my shelf of unread books titled, "This Time It's Different". It's about economic myopia but I expect the psychological principal is the same.
It is far from obvious. Are you aware of US actions in Ukraine since the fall of the USSR?
Russia is running out of weapons.
Says our press.
Perfectly stated.
Thank you, Peter and Lynsey, for this story. Covering the war is a difficult assignment, and you should be proud of the journalist you are.
One can’t help but feel sympathy for the people of Ukraine, and I do, but part of me wonders why this war began in the first place and why it is still raging after a year.
When Israel invaded Lebanon in 2006, after 4 soldiers were abducted from a border station and killed, the U.S. rushed to halt the fighting as quickly as possible. Condoleeza Rice forced the Israelis to a truce just as they were on the cusp of defeating the Hezbollah war machine once and for all. The correct policy would have been to destroy Hezbollah, which has now completely rebuilt and is ready for a rematch.
Similarly, after the despicable bombing of a Passover service in Israel which killed over 20 people, an enraged Israel rolled into Jenin and went house to house, killing militants. They blew holes in walls to move to the next building quickly and safely, a tour de force of urban warfare. In this case, as well, the U.S. stupidly pushed Israel to back out before it could finish the job.
The U.S. abhors violence, except when it serves our needs. No one tried to negotiate a halt to the Iran-Iraq war, a scarcely mentioned conflict that raged during the entire Reagan era, 1980-88, causing over a million deaths (some estimates are double that) including tens of thousands of Iranian child soldiers killed.
Setting aside the righteousness and legality of self-defense, which no one would dispute, war is a terrible thing that should be the last choice after all other bad choices have been tried. A consistent U.S. foreign policy should always be to find a peaceful solution, even if it means territorial concessions and humiliating outcomes for one or both sides. Certainly this approach is applied consistently in the Israeli context.
But not Ukraine. No, we want Ukraine to burn. Make the Russians pay dearly. Degrade their military and destroy their economy, and then at last they will no longer be a threat. Clearly, this is what the United States wants; Biden even said it himself—he would not mind a minor incursion into Ukraine. Incredibly, few mainstream new organizations ever mention this or question what we are doing.
A more foolish plan could hardly be imagined. One year later, a couple hundred thousand people killed, and the war still rages, inconclusive and apparently bound to continue until one side or the other is destroyed. China is propping up Russia, we continue to support the Chinese economy and military buildup, even as we empty our military stockpiles and pour billions of dollars into keeping Ukraine afloat.
Would it not have been better to negotiate a settlement a year ago? Give the Russians Crimea and Donbas and a neutrality pledge by Ukraine, in exchange for demilitarization of the border and restoration of discounted oil and gas shipments. Maybe I’m wrong… I welcome an explanation of why it was necessary for all those people to die.
It's not about Crimea and Donbass, just as it's not about Israeli settlements in the Middle East. Putin doesn't consider Ukraine to be a legitimate country, just as Palestinian Arabs feel about Israel. The main difference between the two situations is that Israel is militarily stronger than its enemy, while Ukraine is not.
Actually, the Arabs don't want to subjugate and annex Israel. They want to wipe the Jews out, drive them into the sea, and take the land.
To my knowledge, the Russians don't want to wipe out the Ukrainians; they regard them as cousins and fellow Slavs who should be part of the Russian federation.
If the Russians don't want to wipe out Ukrainians, why do they booby-trap apartment stairwells and children's playgrounds with explosives when they retreat? Yes, they do that.
If Putin considers Ukrainians to be "cousins", why did he send in Chechen soldiers first? The Chechens are known for their brutality and not much else.
Putin wants the Black Sea, the fertile land and the natural resources. He doesn't give a damn about the people.
Because Putin wants to win and wanted to annex all of Ukraine by any means necessary. So give him Donbas and Crimea (which he had to begin with) and stop the madness.
It's not ours to give.
Dude. He already had it and still does.
And realistically since our money and materiel then yeah, we do get a say.
There’s 50 million Ukrainians; they’re not going anywhere.
But absent US actions in Ukraine since the fall of the USSR would he feel that way? IDK but I think it merits a look-see. And the lock-step to avoid it troubles me.
Sorry. This reads as propaganda. The casualty statistics read as propaganda. The pictures are staged like propaganda. Not saying there isnt a kernel of truth in any part of it. But overall, it is a propaganda piece. Lets read the same story from the Russian point of view. Oh wait. Thats all been censored by the government. Ukrainian Propaganda.
Spot on.
On a related point—- The FP still hasn’t covered the story of Biden blowing up the Nordstream pipeline. Have we heard how the Germans reacted to this? Were they warned? What has this done to their economy? Or are they playing along, playing dumb to protect Joe?
What do you think the Germans are REALLY thinking as we knee cap their energy resources? With “Allie’s” like these who needs enemies???
This site is a lost cause. May as well be the New York Times.
I don't agree with everything either but in my opinion the FP is much much better than the NYTIMES. I just cancelled my NYTIMES subscription - couldn't take it anymore. The NYTIMES highly censors its comment section which was the last straw for me. I haven't seen any censorship of the Free Press comment section - seems like a free and open discussion.
I'm also somewhere in Maryland! :)
That was a good piece by Hersh, but it lacked the smoking hub evidence
Today’s WSJ editorial mirrors my concerns about President Biden’s commitment to providing “everlasting support” to Ukraine. Again, Ukraine is demanding more powerful weapons from America, and although Biden says no, he’ll cave and slowly start to provide them with fighter jets and long-range missiles. The road we’re on feels like we’re slowly headed toward war.
Russia, China, and Iran have formed an alliance (Axis) against America and the West. The war in Ukraine is only the beginning of future conflicts between the Axis and America. This will become a battle for world-order.
I agree. I also think that if we let go, this will be seen as a sign that china has the goahead to take over Taiwan. And people are still forgetting that most of your wheat comes from Ukraine/ Russia and most of the chips from Taiwan + Chaina. They can bend your knee pretty easily if they take over Taiwan
Taiwan is Chinese; it’s an island 100 miles off China's coast, and China will never allow it to be an independent country. It’s only a matter of time before China take over control. For America to say we will defend Taiwan is foolish. I agree with you about our dependence on Taiwan for chips, which means the only long-term solution is to produce the chips here in the USA.
What?!? Actually manufacture stuff in the US? What an idea! Not sure our consumerism at all costs society can handle the real work of having to manufacture a product. Will they be allowed to take their fancy Starbucks drinks onto the assembly line? 🤣
I think you're mildly joking, but to take your comment as a serious question, no, probably not too many locals will not want to work in factories, even if they pay pretty good wages like $25/hour + benefits. Americans don't have that kind of work ethic anymore. The people in these factories, if they are ever built, will be foreign born, and will appreciate the opportunity to work hard for good money and support their families.
Actually this is pretty much how it was 100+ years ago, when millions of Europeans came in to work in the big factories, meat processing plants, garment districts, and mills around New York City, Chicago, etc. They worked 12+ hrs/day, 6-7 days a week, for pennies, under often miserable conditions, and really built this country. I don't advocate a repeat of this, but we do need people like that to drive our industries forward. We're not going to get there with the Starbucks generation!
If you haven't watched the documentary American Factory, I highly recommend doing so. The workers looked really lazy and bad in it.
Thanks, I'll look for that.
I did read Upton Sinclair, though :)
Well that was Trump's goal so that cannot be allowed.
Sorry, read some history on Taiwan. Even Wikipedia. It's racially and ethnically completely different. And China has only in the last hundred or so years had any interest and laid any claim on it - largely because the old Kuomintang Nationalist government went into exile there. The Japanese claimed it for awhile and China didn't care. When the Japanese left China didn't even want it. I used to work with a older Taiwanese scientist who talked about it a great deal. Genetically, the Taiwanese are actually closer to the Vietnamese than the Chinese. Even closer to the Koreans than the Chinese. Proximity does not imply ownership. Ask Canada and Mexico which are both 0 miles from the U.S. Or Vietnam.
Headline: "TSMC to up Arizona investment to $40 billion with second semiconductor chip plant"
Link: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/06/tsmc-to-up-arizona-investment-to-40-billion-with-second-semiconductor-chip-plant.html
True on the chips. Not the wheat. We're actually pretty good at growing wheat.
True. Our landowners are currently paid to not produce.
Not mine.
China talks louder than it acts. It is perfectly happy with the status quo; Taiwan invests in the mainland, avoids declaring independence, and everyone’s happy. All this sabre rattling is just to satisfy internal nationalist factions.
But our diversity and inclusivity will win the day! We fight with empathy and belonging!
Haha, I laugh so I don't cry