Douglas is certainly one of the best voices out there on so many important topics. Clear minded and precise, his insight is of immeasurable value. Thank you for sharing!
Couldn’t have summed it up better. I would listen to Douglas Murray recite Old MacDonald Had a Farm in pig Latin if he chose to do so. If anyone hasn’t heard his reading of his article from Spectator magazine on Kamala Harris, you must. It’s him at his pithiest and most hilarious. Almost makes you forget how damn depressing it is that woman is our VP. 11 Dec 2021 Best of the Spectator podcast.
You are absolutely right. He hits the nail on the head. He talks about the looney left trashing the Western democracies. If the West is so horrific how come millions of people are risking their lives to illegally enter the US and Western Europe?
I don't see all of the Middle Eastern refugees flooding into the Muslim dictatorships like Saudi Arabia or Dubi. No, they go to Europe which if you listen to the left, is a horrible place.
Millions are assaulting our southern border. If The U.S. is such an oppressive shit hole, as the left makes us out to be, how come all of these gate crashers aren't going to the workers' paradises of Cuba or Venezuela? You don't see anybody illegally trying to sneak into the socialist paradise of China.
So why do people want to come to our flawed shores? I wish Joe, Kamala or Nancy could explain this to me. Oh, wait a minute. Joe, Kamala and Nancy have a hard time stringing words together to from a sentence. so maybe one of the semiarticulate Democrats/Socialist like AOC could explain it.
The Socialist Party have chosen these three boobs to be the leaders of the free world and the American people, like the sheep they are, have elected them. (Although, to be fair, we didn't have much choice in the last election. The choice was between a senile idiot and a megalomaniacal bully. I admit. I voted for the lying bully because I can't vote for a Communist.)
And it's pretty bad. Started in '95. You know "The Fed?" That's raising interest rates to combat inflation? They were largely responsible for the dot com bubble (and it's bursting). The housing bubble in '07 and the Great Recession. And what some call "the everything bubble" we live in today. It was fun while it lasted.
Some say we can avoid a recession this time. Or have "a soft landing." Others say we'll need another Great Recession to get outta this inflation.
Wish I had a crystal ball.
One thing I know: When the economists decided they knew *so* much that they (these nine unelected, unaccountable good people that make up The Fed).. Well, they were so smart they could *control the economy!!* (Or at least mop things up when they went bad. They had *all* the answers.)-:
I'm no economist, so my opinion means nothing. But even *I* know that the economy is too big a thing, to complicated a thing, with hundreds of millions of moving targets (people) that only a *fool* would think it could be *controlled,* right?
Long story, but that's the skinny, as best as I can figure it.
Agreed. I don’t have time to listen to/watch hour long podcasts. I guess it works for people with a long commute, but I don’t have that - and can read a transcript in 15 minutes.
I can't stress enough how much this conversation resonated with me. I am grateful I got to listen to it and that there are brave and bright minds working to protect the values that made western civilization great.
I do have to say that I wish we could get some of this content in Spanish. Or get great Hispanic (particularly Latin American) intellectuals together with English-speaking intellectuals. I am originally from Venezuela and I saw my country torn down by the chavista iliberal revolution. Latin America has been under constant seige from the left over the past 3 decades. And as I try to become a US resident I can see so many things in the US society (specially academia, which is where I am) that are the same as the ones hugo chavez seeded in our country to tear us apart. I know that cautionary tales are not as effective as one would like, but I am sure we have a lot of things to learn from each other that can lead us to better strategies to protect this important cuase.
And I agree with Douglas 100%, the US is the battle ground where this cultural revolution matters. I am grateful that people like him and Bari decided to step up and put both their financial and moral capital in the front lines of a battle for our freedom. I already lost one country and, even though am not a full resident yet, I will do my best to protect the one I am now trying to call home.
Thank you John! I came to the US 10 years ago and this country has seen me get married to the love of my life, start a fur family, and has allowed me to become a homeowner while getting a PhD degree, all of these things completely unthinkable back in Venezuela. I don't know if ppl from the US still believe in it, but the American dream is still alive and it is worth fighting for!
Good for you Maria, and I share your frustration relative to many of these discussions not happening in Latin America but even in regions in the States with large Hispanic populations. I live in a border community dominated by left wing group think but confident if other ideas were presented like those of Douglas, they would be embraced. But there are in fact intellectuals, writers, and journalists in Latin America that are contributing. Enrique Krauze from Mexico has written extensively on American platforms is someone you may consider reading/following. Additionally, he produced a movie regarding populism in Venezuela that you may find interesting Enhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_pueblo_soy_yo. Douglas Murray has great advice when states that if we all just do a small bit in standing up and encouraging others to do so we can have an impact.....Suerte!
Murray is always ahead of the curve. Madness of Crowds predicted the gender and race wars would escalate. "The strange death of Europe" documents how an elite media class prevented and censored discussion and sensible policies on immigration, and how self loathing westerners sabotage all canons and institutions, including Judeo-Christian religion. We didn't simply arrive at our current zeitgeist by accident or suddenly. It has been a long time coming.
Douglas Murray is by far one of the most important people to listen to right now. I know if he read this, he would snort out a giggle, in what is the British self-deprecating way. If he does read this, I very much want him to know that I am not alone in thanking him for always lending his eloquent voice to the sane majority.
Regarding the comments on Trump and the election of 2020, I think Bari and Douglas are a bit off base. Those of us who regard the outcome of 2020 with suspicion do not want to overturn an election, we believe the election may have been fraudulent. We might be wrong, but we most assuredly do not want to overturn an election. Trump's words do not rise to the level of criminal incitement. He did say "peacefully and patriotically". Trump wanted Mike Pence to invoke a parliamentary procedure. I fail to see how any parliamentary action can be illegal in the absence of a corrupt motive (bribery, etc.). Routinely, we view these procedures that elect the president as mere formalities, but when push comes to shove, these formalities have meaning.
I won't list here the many reasons why I view the election with suspicion except to note that the motives of the politicians who changed voting procedures do not, in my mind, enjoy the benefit of doubt. Also, the concept of mail-in voting season completely abandons the age-old tradition of the secret ballot. The purpose of secret ballot is not to spare the voters embarrassment, it is to safeguard the ballot from intimidation, manipulation and bribery.
Trump has led the way in exposing and opposing the utter corruption of our institutions. In the aftermath of his leadership on this, there may be other politicians who do not suffer from Trump's ample deficiencies, who can continue this work. But I am one of the pitiable creatures (to refer to Douglas' comments) who believes that only Trump could have begun this work and withstood the astonishing backlash.
I always ask myself this - "If Democrats were craven enough to concoct the Russian collusion fairy tale that had America chasing its tail for four years, do you really think they'd be above trying to rig an election?" Did they? There's enough of an aroma to dig deeper, for sure. And now we're stuck with the senile imbecile they installed and the carnage he's created. But what if - just if - America were presented with air tight proof that the Dems stole the 2020 election? What would we do? What would you do?
I rage in silence Bruce at the moment my anxiety levels are high my family are worried and we all witnessed 1/6 and now these committee hearing Liz Cheney is nauseating and on it goes no end in sight
Don’t rage in silence. Get weapons training. Practice martial arts. Read the stoics. And American history. Never back down. You have a lot of friends who share your love of America.
Nat, thank you so much for your thoughtful comment. There was so much obvious manipulation of the entire election process. I am always impressed by Democrat social scientist Robert Epstein's work showing the power of the tech giants to influence millions of votes through news feeds to unsuspecting voters, Zuck's $400M+ to influence votes, the obvious loss of integrity through mail-in ballots, and elections which never ended until the Democrat won, etc. If one is not suspicious of such things by people/orgs with unsurpassed power, one is hiding their head in the sand. And the 60 or so lost election cases do not deter my suspicion because we now see how vulnerable even supreme court justices are from woke violent mobs. I do not think this started with the Roe v. Wade decision.
When one considers the colossal power of the woke mob in America, many will overlook Trump's personality in order to have a chance at regaining our freedoms. I personally hope DeSantis is the candidate, but Trump is acceptable if need be. I will never vote in the mob.
I do wish former libs like Bari, and even sometimes Douglas Murray would quit saying that the right also disrespects the West. There may be some but it is a negligible factor. The woke mob owns the "The War Against the West."
This is the best reply so far thank you Nat and I think only President Trump can finish it any other leader will be grazed by the establishment the woke culture the msm the giant corporations we can see how things have worked out since the 2020 elections it’s been a disaster Bari is not exactly a Trump fan and Douglas I have watched on American Thought Leaders he wasn’t exactly anti Trump either it was an excellent podcast with Jan at Epoch Times
These two people are such a gift to the world. What a delight to listen to thoughtful, stimulating conversation. Keep up the amazing work, Bari. You are highly valued.
All good with one exception. All nations everywhere are involved in this current reign of tyranny. Our Revolutionary ancestors saw clearly we face the greatest threat of tyranny from within. They were correct. But they may not have foreseen a situation like today where future generations would be so weakened the entire planet would be subsumed under the grip of a coordinated tyranny like no other. Revolutions are always from within and without but this is ridiculous in the extreme.
I have been saying for a number of years (white hair) that the baby boomers (me) are the worst thing to ever happen to America. Of course I'm wrong. The subsequent generations under our elite educators have taken this disinformation and geometrically escalated the BULLSHIT. They know nothing.- why should they when they can look it up on their phones. Knowing nothing makes it difficult to discern what is important and what is true. These are people who can be easily led- easily moved to violence against the "other". Also, Douglas goes pretty easy on the British. I seem to recall a genocide (not easily thrown around by me) perpetrated in the most callous starvation of the Irish not 100 years prior to the glories of battling Hitler. Kinda gotta own that bud.
Yes, but the boomers - my generation - started the anti-Western wave, infiltrated law schools and universities and seeded these bankrupt ideas into the heads of the generations that followed. Not to mention the degradation that came to vulnerable individuals with their sex, drugs & rock and roll, which we now just call our culture. The boomers have been a disaster.
One example: Chesa Boudin, the progeny of murderous radicals Kathy Boudin & David Gilbert. Chesa was later adopted by Bernadine Dohrn and Bill Ayers. All such lovely civic minded destroyers of everything they get their hands on.
i just listened to a very young youtuber (doing videos on crazy leftist tik tok videos) describe why she left her University- she had to write essays about her white privilege as well as her oppression as a woman for her CALCULUS class. they aren't being taught to think. they are being indoctrinated. We need to take back the colleges and universities or else we're in for a very big problem down the line.
I'm glad to see this. I've felt the same way. So many things trace back to this generation. The way my mind works, I want to know why. What happened, to create the behavior of that generation? Was it being the children of those who went through WWII?
I never see this explored into and I truly have wondered. There's more to it, than the explosion of the 60's. For me, understanding is part of dealing with the mess.
I read a book, but I forget the title. Had "Adults" in the title. I think the Greatest Generation (with the Depression and WWII) had it so hard, they wanted there kids to have it easy. They let rock and roll take over. Didn't do much about the sex and drugs either.
The problems this led to was a adult population that never grew up. Forget if that was the Boomers and/or the generations they raised. Memory. But that was the whole point of the book. Non-adults raising kids. Now we got kids (Millennials, Zoomers and worse yet Gen Alpha) who can't really deal with that nasty thing called reality. Can't recognize it in the wild. IMO.
Thank you. That makes sense. I've always wondered about the effects of war on the Greatest Generation, as parents. My grandfather served in the Navy. My mother was born while he was overseas. He never spoke about his service and would allow nothing connected to the Navy, in the house. My Grandma was born in Hawaii and much of her family was living near Pearl Harbor. There are stories about bullets coming into their home and the men helping pull bodies from the water. But, none of it was spoken about for decades. I wonder about the impact of trauma, including the horrific assassinations of the 60's, the stress of the threat of nuclear war and all the duck and cover drills... I wonder about the impact. I know, by the time my aunt was born, the strict house rules had eased up (my mother was born before the Boomer generation) and it seems like she did far too much for her own well-being. I belong to Gen X. My parents and Godparents were born before the boomers. I've got a lot of casual friends/acquaintances, from the boomer era and they still act like it's the 60's and they're young adults; until it comes to issues that inflame. And, yes, some of them went out protesting... in those pink knit hats...sigh.
As us Boomers fade out, I place my hopes on Gen X. I hope they can hold down the fort until a new generation of kids comes up who can handle reality a little better. Turn things over to them and skip the snowflake wannabees. I can dream, can't I?
My husband and I and our peer groups are Gen X. We are quietly keeping our heads down and doing the work that needs to be done. The last generation not born into modern technology, we still know how to do things via analogue (like using paper resource books lol), so if it all comes crashing down, we’ll show the youngsters how to adjust the bunny ear antennas. We are a small but mighty generation full of realists and moderates who see the world the way it is, understand somewhat about what real discomfort is, and are generally less worried about being right than we are about everyone just shutting up and getting stuff done. We are ready to take up the cause of common sense.
In the long history of the world, boomers were probably the first generation to have a significant amount of free time. Considering all the ways we could have used that gift, we did not distinguish ourselves.
Memory... The title of the book was "The Death of the Grown-Up." There used to not be such-a thing as "teenagers." The Boomers were the first. Chapter 1 starts with an interesting quote that sums up the problems:
"If a society is to preserve its stability and a degree of continuity, it must know how to keep its adolescents from imposing their tastes, attitudes, values, and fantasies on everyday life." — ERIC HOFFER, 1973
That's a really good quote, jt, from Hoffer of all people. It's a complicated issue that deserves more than a subscript here. But I'd add that we lived in a time of almost limitless possibility. Just think of California in the 1960s. With the good and the bad together. And now we're 70 year olds, desperately holding onto things, unwilling to pass them on.
I've been thinking about the road that led here too. I am also a boomer, and have seen how socialists infiltrated universities, turning them into virtual madrasas of leftism.
I also notice that the GI Bill sowed the idea that everyone should go to college, where the Socialists and Fabians had set up shop in the 1920's. They were waiting with open arms to plant their poison into the minds of America's future leaders. And it was sold as a gift from our benevolent government.
Seems to me that boomer idealism curdled into self-indulgence. The early boomers came up in a time of abundance. Perhaps many confused being lucky with being good. Look at Gates. Seems to me he confused his ability to corner a market with actually adding value. The parasites won the round. Now they feel entitled to suck on the American public until dragged kicking and screaming into the grave.
I agree that a lot of my generation (Boomer) have had life too good and were handed too much. Many of my peers have never known any significant adversity. I grew up on a farm learning from my WWI grandfather and WWII dad, my wife similarly from her grandmothers and mom.
The Boomer laziness isn’t uniform, as a LOT of the “non-elite” working class still enrolled in service to their country and went and saw REAL adversity.
But I have a lot of peers that didn’t have to work very hard at all.
Our own kids would be very well advised to work that hard. Raising our own has taken work to make sure they don’t assume everything is owed to them, and to know that the Institutions they say “need to be torn down” are the foundation of what they have - and be careful what you ask for, you might not like that.
In the 1990’s students chanted hey hey ho ho western civ has got to go. By the 2020’s speech rights , assembly rights and due process were dramatically curtailed by these same types.
The brilliant Douglas Murray. I cannot get enough of his wisdom. Thank you Bari for this wonderful conversation. I will share it with as many as I can.
Protection of individual rights... seeing the individual as divine... that was the great epiphany of the West that propelled it to fantastic success... that attracted the collectivists only to loot what they could never have derived themselves.
The focus on the individual over the collective is a tremendously flawed principle that happens to be the best principle by far compared to the alternative... because this principle best matches basic human behavior to pursue individual growth. That driving force of individual pursuit can result in chaos, so the controlling personalities are motivated to reduce individual freedoms to prevent chaos. However, controlling collectivist systems are sub-optimized from the perspective of basic human behavior and needs... and thus begin to fail. The collectivists in charge have to resort to more draconian measures to keep control.. including eventual threats of violence and death to those that don't comply.
Collectivists look at China and think that collectivism can work. However, China looted from the West to grow itself to a superpower. The West educated China's leaders and engineers. It handed over trade, industry and scientific developments that China with its creativity-stifling system could have never developed itself.
The West has shown the world the model for humanity; but the malcontents in the West are committed to nihilistic efforts to destroy what works and replace it with what has proven disastrous throughout history.
When the ideological frameworks that guide all things woke began trickling into so many aspects of our culture Douglass Murray was one of the first writers that helped guide me out to a clear mental place. After trudging my way through the works of Ibram Kendi, Robin DiAngelo, etc. I absolutely could not contort my brain into buying into what I see as a huge load of manipulative garbage that is helpful to nobody other that those profiting off of the nonsense. Murray helped lead me to the work of so many other compassionate and truly ethical intellectuals like Glenn Loury, John McWhorter, Coleman Hughes, Heather MacDonald and many more. I believe that they all write and speak from a place of truth and compassion and have nothing but genuine concern for the overall well being of our culture and how that plays out in our lives. They really are committed to just speaking the truth. As far as I can tell, they just refuse to back down from that and they continue to inspire me to do the same.
A great discussion for sure. Those of us who understand that America has given us much more than we could ever give back have awakened. For years we trusted our institutions to at least do some of what is best for the country. That is no more. You can already see 'woke' going to shyte. We are winning local elections and are going to push the communist/oligarchal forces out wherever we can.
Be careful discussing Trump and the 2020 election. These same forces said nary a word about democrats literally burning downtown D.C. and Madonna 'blowing up the White House', etc in 2016. Nobody said anything about the 2016 electoral vote 'questions' and nobody said a word for four years while Hillary and the press(but I repeat myself) said 2016 was stolen.
It is absolutely clear that 2020 was irregular at best in six swing states that had unguarded drop boxes for mail-in votes that decided the election. Remember, Molly Ball at Time.com told us so. The point is to recognize this so our institutions do not do it again.
His book is simultaneously a compendium of the numerous and continuous insults against western culture, and a thoughtful counter to those who would adopt those positions. Frankly, the sheer magnitude of those assaults is depressing, especially so because the criticisms of the west come from those who have lives most enriched by it.
Douglas is certainly one of the best voices out there on so many important topics. Clear minded and precise, his insight is of immeasurable value. Thank you for sharing!
Couldn’t have summed it up better. I would listen to Douglas Murray recite Old MacDonald Had a Farm in pig Latin if he chose to do so. If anyone hasn’t heard his reading of his article from Spectator magazine on Kamala Harris, you must. It’s him at his pithiest and most hilarious. Almost makes you forget how damn depressing it is that woman is our VP. 11 Dec 2021 Best of the Spectator podcast.
Thanks for the recommendation. I have downloaded it for later listening. Here's the link:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spectator-out-loud-douglas-murray-mary-wakefield-peter/id793236670?i=1000544640263
Somehow missed this one. Peak Douglas, this is an absolute riot.
Thanks for posting this link. It made my day! 😂
I just googled it - easy to find. It is both sarcastically funny and biting in its irony. Thanks Nicole, for the recommendation.
Sure! I listened to it a few times, it only gets better.
Your second sentence conveys my feelings on Douglas Murray, exactly, Nicole!
You are absolutely right. He hits the nail on the head. He talks about the looney left trashing the Western democracies. If the West is so horrific how come millions of people are risking their lives to illegally enter the US and Western Europe?
I don't see all of the Middle Eastern refugees flooding into the Muslim dictatorships like Saudi Arabia or Dubi. No, they go to Europe which if you listen to the left, is a horrible place.
Millions are assaulting our southern border. If The U.S. is such an oppressive shit hole, as the left makes us out to be, how come all of these gate crashers aren't going to the workers' paradises of Cuba or Venezuela? You don't see anybody illegally trying to sneak into the socialist paradise of China.
So why do people want to come to our flawed shores? I wish Joe, Kamala or Nancy could explain this to me. Oh, wait a minute. Joe, Kamala and Nancy have a hard time stringing words together to from a sentence. so maybe one of the semiarticulate Democrats/Socialist like AOC could explain it.
The Socialist Party have chosen these three boobs to be the leaders of the free world and the American people, like the sheep they are, have elected them. (Although, to be fair, we didn't have much choice in the last election. The choice was between a senile idiot and a megalomaniacal bully. I admit. I voted for the lying bully because I can't vote for a Communist.)
My feelings exactly
A wonderful writer indeed. Please let us have a transcript of your conversation for those of us who would rather read than listen. Thanks.
Agree. I don't like listening to podcasts. Transcript, please.
Agree generally, but Murray has such a beautiful speaking voice and manner of expression that it's hard to translate it to paper.
I wish I had the time. But in the time saved, I've been studying monetary policy.
In a word? We screwed. But the fat cats got rich, so there is that.
Monetary policy?
Pshaw
I’m working on world peace.
And the perfect hamburger.
Getting close on the burger
Lemme know when You get the burger ready. I let You know when world peace is fixed.
Yum
AAA brisket trimmed
Single course grind
Salt, garlic, chili flakes
Sear
Boom
You funny, me smiling……carry on
He who controls the money, controls everything. You're on to something.
Yup.
And it's pretty bad. Started in '95. You know "The Fed?" That's raising interest rates to combat inflation? They were largely responsible for the dot com bubble (and it's bursting). The housing bubble in '07 and the Great Recession. And what some call "the everything bubble" we live in today. It was fun while it lasted.
Some say we can avoid a recession this time. Or have "a soft landing." Others say we'll need another Great Recession to get outta this inflation.
Wish I had a crystal ball.
One thing I know: When the economists decided they knew *so* much that they (these nine unelected, unaccountable good people that make up The Fed).. Well, they were so smart they could *control the economy!!* (Or at least mop things up when they went bad. They had *all* the answers.)-:
I'm no economist, so my opinion means nothing. But even *I* know that the economy is too big a thing, to complicated a thing, with hundreds of millions of moving targets (people) that only a *fool* would think it could be *controlled,* right?
Long story, but that's the skinny, as best as I can figure it.
Agreed. I don’t have time to listen to/watch hour long podcasts. I guess it works for people with a long commute, but I don’t have that - and can read a transcript in 15 minutes.
Right you are. TLDL.
I actually have Murray's book on my Kindle/Audible, saved for my next long road trip.
Love his “I refuse to stand by and take this anymore” attitude.
Channeling Douglas Murray
We all should
I can't stress enough how much this conversation resonated with me. I am grateful I got to listen to it and that there are brave and bright minds working to protect the values that made western civilization great.
I do have to say that I wish we could get some of this content in Spanish. Or get great Hispanic (particularly Latin American) intellectuals together with English-speaking intellectuals. I am originally from Venezuela and I saw my country torn down by the chavista iliberal revolution. Latin America has been under constant seige from the left over the past 3 decades. And as I try to become a US resident I can see so many things in the US society (specially academia, which is where I am) that are the same as the ones hugo chavez seeded in our country to tear us apart. I know that cautionary tales are not as effective as one would like, but I am sure we have a lot of things to learn from each other that can lead us to better strategies to protect this important cuase.
And I agree with Douglas 100%, the US is the battle ground where this cultural revolution matters. I am grateful that people like him and Bari decided to step up and put both their financial and moral capital in the front lines of a battle for our freedom. I already lost one country and, even though am not a full resident yet, I will do my best to protect the one I am now trying to call home.
Welcome to America. And welcome to the fight!
Thank you John! I came to the US 10 years ago and this country has seen me get married to the love of my life, start a fur family, and has allowed me to become a homeowner while getting a PhD degree, all of these things completely unthinkable back in Venezuela. I don't know if ppl from the US still believe in it, but the American dream is still alive and it is worth fighting for!
Good for you Maria, and I share your frustration relative to many of these discussions not happening in Latin America but even in regions in the States with large Hispanic populations. I live in a border community dominated by left wing group think but confident if other ideas were presented like those of Douglas, they would be embraced. But there are in fact intellectuals, writers, and journalists in Latin America that are contributing. Enrique Krauze from Mexico has written extensively on American platforms is someone you may consider reading/following. Additionally, he produced a movie regarding populism in Venezuela that you may find interesting Enhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_pueblo_soy_yo. Douglas Murray has great advice when states that if we all just do a small bit in standing up and encouraging others to do so we can have an impact.....Suerte!
Murray is always ahead of the curve. Madness of Crowds predicted the gender and race wars would escalate. "The strange death of Europe" documents how an elite media class prevented and censored discussion and sensible policies on immigration, and how self loathing westerners sabotage all canons and institutions, including Judeo-Christian religion. We didn't simply arrive at our current zeitgeist by accident or suddenly. It has been a long time coming.
Douglas Murray is by far one of the most important people to listen to right now. I know if he read this, he would snort out a giggle, in what is the British self-deprecating way. If he does read this, I very much want him to know that I am not alone in thanking him for always lending his eloquent voice to the sane majority.
Sane silent majority! Unfortunately we need to be more vocal after all this is America🇺🇸🇺🇸
Fortunately we still can....and had better!
Yip and we better start moving now before it’s to late MAG!
Regarding the comments on Trump and the election of 2020, I think Bari and Douglas are a bit off base. Those of us who regard the outcome of 2020 with suspicion do not want to overturn an election, we believe the election may have been fraudulent. We might be wrong, but we most assuredly do not want to overturn an election. Trump's words do not rise to the level of criminal incitement. He did say "peacefully and patriotically". Trump wanted Mike Pence to invoke a parliamentary procedure. I fail to see how any parliamentary action can be illegal in the absence of a corrupt motive (bribery, etc.). Routinely, we view these procedures that elect the president as mere formalities, but when push comes to shove, these formalities have meaning.
I won't list here the many reasons why I view the election with suspicion except to note that the motives of the politicians who changed voting procedures do not, in my mind, enjoy the benefit of doubt. Also, the concept of mail-in voting season completely abandons the age-old tradition of the secret ballot. The purpose of secret ballot is not to spare the voters embarrassment, it is to safeguard the ballot from intimidation, manipulation and bribery.
Trump has led the way in exposing and opposing the utter corruption of our institutions. In the aftermath of his leadership on this, there may be other politicians who do not suffer from Trump's ample deficiencies, who can continue this work. But I am one of the pitiable creatures (to refer to Douglas' comments) who believes that only Trump could have begun this work and withstood the astonishing backlash.
I always ask myself this - "If Democrats were craven enough to concoct the Russian collusion fairy tale that had America chasing its tail for four years, do you really think they'd be above trying to rig an election?" Did they? There's enough of an aroma to dig deeper, for sure. And now we're stuck with the senile imbecile they installed and the carnage he's created. But what if - just if - America were presented with air tight proof that the Dems stole the 2020 election? What would we do? What would you do?
I rage in silence Bruce at the moment my anxiety levels are high my family are worried and we all witnessed 1/6 and now these committee hearing Liz Cheney is nauseating and on it goes no end in sight
Don’t rage in silence. Get weapons training. Practice martial arts. Read the stoics. And American history. Never back down. You have a lot of friends who share your love of America.
Nat, thank you so much for your thoughtful comment. There was so much obvious manipulation of the entire election process. I am always impressed by Democrat social scientist Robert Epstein's work showing the power of the tech giants to influence millions of votes through news feeds to unsuspecting voters, Zuck's $400M+ to influence votes, the obvious loss of integrity through mail-in ballots, and elections which never ended until the Democrat won, etc. If one is not suspicious of such things by people/orgs with unsurpassed power, one is hiding their head in the sand. And the 60 or so lost election cases do not deter my suspicion because we now see how vulnerable even supreme court justices are from woke violent mobs. I do not think this started with the Roe v. Wade decision.
When one considers the colossal power of the woke mob in America, many will overlook Trump's personality in order to have a chance at regaining our freedoms. I personally hope DeSantis is the candidate, but Trump is acceptable if need be. I will never vote in the mob.
I do wish former libs like Bari, and even sometimes Douglas Murray would quit saying that the right also disrespects the West. There may be some but it is a negligible factor. The woke mob owns the "The War Against the West."
This is the best reply so far thank you Nat and I think only President Trump can finish it any other leader will be grazed by the establishment the woke culture the msm the giant corporations we can see how things have worked out since the 2020 elections it’s been a disaster Bari is not exactly a Trump fan and Douglas I have watched on American Thought Leaders he wasn’t exactly anti Trump either it was an excellent podcast with Jan at Epoch Times
These two people are such a gift to the world. What a delight to listen to thoughtful, stimulating conversation. Keep up the amazing work, Bari. You are highly valued.
All good with one exception. All nations everywhere are involved in this current reign of tyranny. Our Revolutionary ancestors saw clearly we face the greatest threat of tyranny from within. They were correct. But they may not have foreseen a situation like today where future generations would be so weakened the entire planet would be subsumed under the grip of a coordinated tyranny like no other. Revolutions are always from within and without but this is ridiculous in the extreme.
I have been saying for a number of years (white hair) that the baby boomers (me) are the worst thing to ever happen to America. Of course I'm wrong. The subsequent generations under our elite educators have taken this disinformation and geometrically escalated the BULLSHIT. They know nothing.- why should they when they can look it up on their phones. Knowing nothing makes it difficult to discern what is important and what is true. These are people who can be easily led- easily moved to violence against the "other". Also, Douglas goes pretty easy on the British. I seem to recall a genocide (not easily thrown around by me) perpetrated in the most callous starvation of the Irish not 100 years prior to the glories of battling Hitler. Kinda gotta own that bud.
Yes, but the boomers - my generation - started the anti-Western wave, infiltrated law schools and universities and seeded these bankrupt ideas into the heads of the generations that followed. Not to mention the degradation that came to vulnerable individuals with their sex, drugs & rock and roll, which we now just call our culture. The boomers have been a disaster.
Yes, let a bunch of lefties and 1960s radicals take over our education system.
What could possibly go wrong?????
One example: Chesa Boudin, the progeny of murderous radicals Kathy Boudin & David Gilbert. Chesa was later adopted by Bernadine Dohrn and Bill Ayers. All such lovely civic minded destroyers of everything they get their hands on.
Bill Ayers, pal of Jug Ears.
Birds of a feather….
😂
Great example, Syd.
Right? Now we know.
i just listened to a very young youtuber (doing videos on crazy leftist tik tok videos) describe why she left her University- she had to write essays about her white privilege as well as her oppression as a woman for her CALCULUS class. they aren't being taught to think. they are being indoctrinated. We need to take back the colleges and universities or else we're in for a very big problem down the line.
I'm glad to see this. I've felt the same way. So many things trace back to this generation. The way my mind works, I want to know why. What happened, to create the behavior of that generation? Was it being the children of those who went through WWII?
I never see this explored into and I truly have wondered. There's more to it, than the explosion of the 60's. For me, understanding is part of dealing with the mess.
I read a book, but I forget the title. Had "Adults" in the title. I think the Greatest Generation (with the Depression and WWII) had it so hard, they wanted there kids to have it easy. They let rock and roll take over. Didn't do much about the sex and drugs either.
The problems this led to was a adult population that never grew up. Forget if that was the Boomers and/or the generations they raised. Memory. But that was the whole point of the book. Non-adults raising kids. Now we got kids (Millennials, Zoomers and worse yet Gen Alpha) who can't really deal with that nasty thing called reality. Can't recognize it in the wild. IMO.
Thank you. That makes sense. I've always wondered about the effects of war on the Greatest Generation, as parents. My grandfather served in the Navy. My mother was born while he was overseas. He never spoke about his service and would allow nothing connected to the Navy, in the house. My Grandma was born in Hawaii and much of her family was living near Pearl Harbor. There are stories about bullets coming into their home and the men helping pull bodies from the water. But, none of it was spoken about for decades. I wonder about the impact of trauma, including the horrific assassinations of the 60's, the stress of the threat of nuclear war and all the duck and cover drills... I wonder about the impact. I know, by the time my aunt was born, the strict house rules had eased up (my mother was born before the Boomer generation) and it seems like she did far too much for her own well-being. I belong to Gen X. My parents and Godparents were born before the boomers. I've got a lot of casual friends/acquaintances, from the boomer era and they still act like it's the 60's and they're young adults; until it comes to issues that inflame. And, yes, some of them went out protesting... in those pink knit hats...sigh.
As us Boomers fade out, I place my hopes on Gen X. I hope they can hold down the fort until a new generation of kids comes up who can handle reality a little better. Turn things over to them and skip the snowflake wannabees. I can dream, can't I?
My husband and I and our peer groups are Gen X. We are quietly keeping our heads down and doing the work that needs to be done. The last generation not born into modern technology, we still know how to do things via analogue (like using paper resource books lol), so if it all comes crashing down, we’ll show the youngsters how to adjust the bunny ear antennas. We are a small but mighty generation full of realists and moderates who see the world the way it is, understand somewhat about what real discomfort is, and are generally less worried about being right than we are about everyone just shutting up and getting stuff done. We are ready to take up the cause of common sense.
I can dream, too. Plus, my guys are with me in reality, thankfully.
In the long history of the world, boomers were probably the first generation to have a significant amount of free time. Considering all the ways we could have used that gift, we did not distinguish ourselves.
That's a really good point.
Memory... The title of the book was "The Death of the Grown-Up." There used to not be such-a thing as "teenagers." The Boomers were the first. Chapter 1 starts with an interesting quote that sums up the problems:
"If a society is to preserve its stability and a degree of continuity, it must know how to keep its adolescents from imposing their tastes, attitudes, values, and fantasies on everyday life." — ERIC HOFFER, 1973
That's a really good quote, jt, from Hoffer of all people. It's a complicated issue that deserves more than a subscript here. But I'd add that we lived in a time of almost limitless possibility. Just think of California in the 1960s. With the good and the bad together. And now we're 70 year olds, desperately holding onto things, unwilling to pass them on.
I think you’re on to something, jt.
I've been thinking about the road that led here too. I am also a boomer, and have seen how socialists infiltrated universities, turning them into virtual madrasas of leftism.
I also notice that the GI Bill sowed the idea that everyone should go to college, where the Socialists and Fabians had set up shop in the 1920's. They were waiting with open arms to plant their poison into the minds of America's future leaders. And it was sold as a gift from our benevolent government.
Seems to me that boomer idealism curdled into self-indulgence. The early boomers came up in a time of abundance. Perhaps many confused being lucky with being good. Look at Gates. Seems to me he confused his ability to corner a market with actually adding value. The parasites won the round. Now they feel entitled to suck on the American public until dragged kicking and screaming into the grave.
You said it better 'n I did.
I agree that a lot of my generation (Boomer) have had life too good and were handed too much. Many of my peers have never known any significant adversity. I grew up on a farm learning from my WWI grandfather and WWII dad, my wife similarly from her grandmothers and mom.
The Boomer laziness isn’t uniform, as a LOT of the “non-elite” working class still enrolled in service to their country and went and saw REAL adversity.
But I have a lot of peers that didn’t have to work very hard at all.
Our own kids would be very well advised to work that hard. Raising our own has taken work to make sure they don’t assume everything is owed to them, and to know that the Institutions they say “need to be torn down” are the foundation of what they have - and be careful what you ask for, you might not like that.
In the 1990’s students chanted hey hey ho ho western civ has got to go. By the 2020’s speech rights , assembly rights and due process were dramatically curtailed by these same types.
When I was at UCLA in the late 1970s the were already chanting "Hey, Hey, Ho, Ho, Western Civ has got to go" at Stanford...
The brilliant Douglas Murray. I cannot get enough of his wisdom. Thank you Bari for this wonderful conversation. I will share it with as many as I can.
Protection of individual rights... seeing the individual as divine... that was the great epiphany of the West that propelled it to fantastic success... that attracted the collectivists only to loot what they could never have derived themselves.
The focus on the individual over the collective is a tremendously flawed principle that happens to be the best principle by far compared to the alternative... because this principle best matches basic human behavior to pursue individual growth. That driving force of individual pursuit can result in chaos, so the controlling personalities are motivated to reduce individual freedoms to prevent chaos. However, controlling collectivist systems are sub-optimized from the perspective of basic human behavior and needs... and thus begin to fail. The collectivists in charge have to resort to more draconian measures to keep control.. including eventual threats of violence and death to those that don't comply.
Collectivists look at China and think that collectivism can work. However, China looted from the West to grow itself to a superpower. The West educated China's leaders and engineers. It handed over trade, industry and scientific developments that China with its creativity-stifling system could have never developed itself.
The West has shown the world the model for humanity; but the malcontents in the West are committed to nihilistic efforts to destroy what works and replace it with what has proven disastrous throughout history.
Excellent post!
When the ideological frameworks that guide all things woke began trickling into so many aspects of our culture Douglass Murray was one of the first writers that helped guide me out to a clear mental place. After trudging my way through the works of Ibram Kendi, Robin DiAngelo, etc. I absolutely could not contort my brain into buying into what I see as a huge load of manipulative garbage that is helpful to nobody other that those profiting off of the nonsense. Murray helped lead me to the work of so many other compassionate and truly ethical intellectuals like Glenn Loury, John McWhorter, Coleman Hughes, Heather MacDonald and many more. I believe that they all write and speak from a place of truth and compassion and have nothing but genuine concern for the overall well being of our culture and how that plays out in our lives. They really are committed to just speaking the truth. As far as I can tell, they just refuse to back down from that and they continue to inspire me to do the same.
A great discussion for sure. Those of us who understand that America has given us much more than we could ever give back have awakened. For years we trusted our institutions to at least do some of what is best for the country. That is no more. You can already see 'woke' going to shyte. We are winning local elections and are going to push the communist/oligarchal forces out wherever we can.
Be careful discussing Trump and the 2020 election. These same forces said nary a word about democrats literally burning downtown D.C. and Madonna 'blowing up the White House', etc in 2016. Nobody said anything about the 2016 electoral vote 'questions' and nobody said a word for four years while Hillary and the press(but I repeat myself) said 2016 was stolen.
It is absolutely clear that 2020 was irregular at best in six swing states that had unguarded drop boxes for mail-in votes that decided the election. Remember, Molly Ball at Time.com told us so. The point is to recognize this so our institutions do not do it again.
His book is simultaneously a compendium of the numerous and continuous insults against western culture, and a thoughtful counter to those who would adopt those positions. Frankly, the sheer magnitude of those assaults is depressing, especially so because the criticisms of the west come from those who have lives most enriched by it.